Opinion
Where are you getting 4-131 info?
Both sides slinging accusations. One side has some “slick” mailer postcards and brochures along with some computer generated material and blog postings. The “other” side appears to be a slap-dash, montage ranging from Bradwood’s press releases to the newsletter over on Dried Salmon’s Blogspot as well as a smattering of blog postings. Daily Astorian came out, (surprise, surprise, surprise) against the measure on the grounds that it would be a slap in the face of the County Commissioners and Forrester’s all for that. Where are you getting your information to cast your ballot on this measure? What’s your sources? Are you preaching to the choir or reaching new people? Are you someone who has recently “converted”? What convinced you to vote the way you did? If you haven’t voted yet, what are you waiting for?
Blogs & Forums that have recently posted on the topic of LNG:
Coastwatch
Oregon Guy
GrassRoots Reposting of Media Articles on LNG news items w/comments permitted
Peter Huhtala
Burning Corn
Clatsop County Matters
Dried Salmon Forum
KAST Forum
Some Satire? Astoria Rust’s Forum
Tip of the Day
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." ~ George Bernard Shaw "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." ~Thomas Jefferson (Thanks, Auntie)
Articles Elsewhere
Recent Comments
On Nov 18, 5:48 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:Who says we …
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By Nick from the article Rehearing of FERC's Bradwood order is granted for Limited Purpose.I didn’t realize getting LNG from Alaska was considered “importing”, …
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By senior citizen from the article Incumbents keep seats: Last 190 ballots result in no changes.Who says we need LNG Imports Nick?
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101 Comments
On Sep 5, 6:24 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Patrick McGee wrote on LNG Referendum 4-131 Campaign - Fraud or Fact?
Harassment?
Sue me?
Who would it be I’m harassing?
-----------------------------------
Ok, Patrick, maybe the word is too severe and inappropriate word.
Anyway, I might be able to find stuff but it isn’t worth the time to hunt the stuff. There is certainly some issues in the wordage by Ann Samuelson that lacks “indication” of when she is speaking as a Commissioner and when she is talking as herself.
Now: To focus on the this thread’s question. I get alot from a variety of sources and research on what LNG is and so on.
On Sep 5, 6:27 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
I get mine from “Clatsop County”, “The Daily Astorian”, “KAST Coastwatch","Peter Huhtala” and of course, “Grass Roots People”.
What convinced me to vote the way I did?
North Coast Oregon, Dried Salmon Matters.
On Sep 5, 6:31 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Who’s truths or lies are you believing is the nature of this question.
I believe from my standpoint that LNG might be good but I’d be interested in others issues. Anyway, I think for me, I discussed this topic to the point of it being an “undead” horse.
Anyway, I voted how I feel about the issue whether you agree or disagree with me, I’m not going to care to debate it. The world would move on.
On Sep 5, 7:41 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 5, 6:31 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Anyway, I voted how I feel about the issue whether you agree or disagree with me, I’m not going to care to debate it. The world would move on.
And you did exactly the right thing on that vote.
On the LNG issue, shouldn’t that be “Beat a dead horse” or did you mean “Beat a Live(not dead) horse”?
See how easy it is to change the context of a sentence?
On Sep 5, 8:00 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
LOL, yes, Patrick I know the phrase. I was poking the point that this horse was beaten to death and it was ressurected to get killed over and over like a zombie that doesn’t know how to stay in the grave.
Anyway, it’s just my humor.
We’ll see exactly what happens in the upcoming weeks.
On Sep 5, 8:58 PM, OK Guest wrote:
Why don’t you two get a room?
On Sep 5, 9:18 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 5, 8:58 PM, OK Guest wrote:
Why don’t you two get a room?
Oh! I forgot, we’re supposed to be assinating each other’s character on NCO.
I do apologize for violating the editorial policy here.
On Sep 6, 12:43 AM, voted yes wrote:
OK Guest, you are allowed to have some fun too, with or without Pat’s approval. SHEEEESH, Pat, lighten up.
I get my LNG news from reading Southerlunds Daily LNG headlines, NCO’s links to the State & Fed agencies ODE, DOE, FERC, and reading Columbia RiverKeepers and Bradwoods sites along with Oregon Guy and Rust and checking in on DSM forum for any links or something I might have missed. Oregon Live and Longview Daily News, too.
I could be snotty like Pat and say reading the blogroll every hour and seeing he’s cut ‘n pasted another slanted article from the Daily Asswipe convinced me to vote the way I did but I’m more honest than Pat. I voted yes because its the only sane and correct way to vote. Even if I were against LNG voting no would cut off my nose to spite my face. It’s a ridiculous thing to have even brought in front of the public. The latest at DSM shows that this group thinks “misinforming” people is their constitutional right!
On Sep 6, 8:11 AM, Dumb referendum wrote:
McGee, I notice that you stated you voted how “you feel” give us all a break...are you aware of the OPR zones, and where they are in Clatsop County...how about Camp Rilea....hope they’ve developed all the public safety buildings they need etc...oh yeah and the Astoria Golf and Country Club probably doesn’t ever need to re do their irrigation system or expand...this referendum is even dumber than Marquis ballot measure to get a raise and not be accountable!!! You common sense people have lost your minds!!
On Sep 6, 8:14 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Yes you could be snotty “Voted Yes” but nobody knows who you are anyway so what does it matter.
On Sep 6, 8:58 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 6, 8:11 AM, Dumb referendum wrote:
McGee, I notice that you stated you voted how “you feel” give us all a break...are you aware of the OPR zones, and where they are in Clatsop County...how about Camp Rilea....hope they’ve developed all the public safety buildings they need etc...oh yeah and the Astoria Golf and Country Club probably doesn’t ever need to re do their irrigation system or expand...this referendum is even dumber than Marquis ballot measure
Do those properties have 36” diameter, high pressure (+/-1740psi) Natural Gas Transmission pipelines in a 120’ to 150’ controlled right of way running through them?
Once again, current OPR zoned properties allow for site utilities to service each property.(LWDUO Section 3.590 - Development and Use Standards - Item #2
Yeah, I’ll give you a break by not referencing you degree of common sense on the issue.
When you going to get over, what is, it Measure 4-123?
The D.A. got his stipend back.
On Sep 7, 12:55 AM, common sense is as common sense does wrote:
VERY FEW ZONES in Clatsop County allow the placement of pipelines or cables.
In lakes and wetland zones a pipeline is permitted under a Type I procedure subject to the applicable development standards.
In marine industrial shorelands zones a pipeline may be permitted when in Review Uses in the MI zone under a Type II procedure, Section 2.020, when authorized in accordance with Sections 5.040-5.051 Development and Use Permitted with Review, and subject to the provisions of Section 3.634.
In conservation shorelands zones pipelines may be permitted as Conditional Uses in the CS zone under a Type II procedure, Section 2.020, when authorized in accordance with Sections 5.000-5.030 Conditional Development and Use, and subject to the provisions of Section 3.670, Development Standards.
On Sep 7, 12:57 AM, common sense is as common sense does wrote:
In a natural shoreland zone a pipeline may be permitted as a conditional use in the NS zone under a Type II procedure, Section 2.020, when authorized in accordance with Sections 5.000-5.030 Conditional Development and Use, and subject to the provisions of Section 3.690, Development Standards.
In the aquatic development zone a pipeline may be permitted as Review Uses in the AD zone under a Type II procedure, Section 2.020, when authorized in accordance with Sections 5.040-5.051 Development and Use Permitted with Review, and subject to the provisions of Section 3.754, Development Standards.
In the aquatic conservation one zone a pipeline may be permitted as Review Uses in the AC-1 zone under a Type II procedure, Section 2.020, when authorized in accordance with Sections 5.040-5.051 Developments and Uses Permitted with Review.
On Sep 7, 1:00 AM, common sense is as common sense does wrote:
In the Ecola Conservation Zone a pipeline may be permitted under a Type II procedure, Section 2.020, and Sections 5.000 to 5.030 Conditional Development and Use, and subject to applicable criteria and development standards of Section 3.710 and site plan review.
In the aquatic conservation two zone a pipeline is allowed as Review Uses in the AC-2 zone under a Type II procedure, Section 2.020, when authorized in accordance with Sections 5.040-5.051 Development and Uses Permitted with Review.
In the aquatice natural zone a pipeline may be permitted as Conditional Uses in the AN zone under a Type II procedure, Section 2.020, when authorized in accordance with Sections 5.000-5.030 Conditional Development and Use. Uses and activities are also subject to provisions of Sec. 3.810, Develop Standards. It must also be determined if the uses and activities meet resource capability of the Aquatic Natural zone, subject to the procedures in Sections 5.860- 5.880 Resource Capability Determination.
On Sep 7, 1:02 AM, common sense is as common sense does wrote:
In the Necanicum Aquatic Conservation zone a pipeline may be permitted under a Type II procedure and Sections 5.000 to 5.030, and site plan review and the Development and Use Standards of Section 3.828.
Remind us all again exactly what was it ALL of the land surrounding the “OPR” zoned land at Bradwood is zoned? Given what the LWDUO says about what these lands permit for pipelines, it sounds like the Commissioners used COMMON SENSE in applying the SAME GUIDELINES to the OPR zoned lands, doesn’t it?
On Sep 7, 1:10 AM, An Ardant fan of McGee's so leave him alone! wrote:
On Sep 6, 8:14 AM, Patrick McGee wrote: Yes you could be snotty “Voted Yes” but nobody knows who you are anyway so what does it matter.
LOL! Yeah, you can only be snotty, a jackass and immature if we all know who you are. So there, nyaaah!
On Sep 7, 8:49 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 7, 1:10 AM, An Ardant fan of McGee’s so leave him alone! wrote:
On Sep 6, 8:14 AM, Patrick McGee wrote: Yes you could be snotty “Voted Yes” but nobody knows who you are anyway so what does it matter.
LOL! Yeah, you can only be snotty, a jackass and immature if we all know who you are. So there, nyaaah!
You really have no idea how valid your point is do you?
On Sep 7, 9:17 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Daily Astorian came out, (surprise, surprise, surprise) against the measure on the grounds that it would be a slap in the face of the County Commissioners and Forrester’s all for that
So I ask you “North Coast Oregon” where it is you get this information from?
Editor Forrester’s position in his editorial “"No" on LNG, “No” on Measure 4-131” in no way infers the Daily Astorian supports defeat of Measure 4-131.
Is there something I may have missed that would rectify NCO’s obvious misreporting of this position by The Daily Astorian?
On Sep 7, 9:30 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
And for “Common Sense Is as Common Sense Does”: None of that property you are spouting about is OPR zoned.
You want a 36” diameter, high pressure (+/-)1740psi, Natural Gas Transmission pipeline in a 120 foot to 150 foot controlled right of way, buried at 3 feet below grade running through that OPR zoned property, rezone it to one of the above.
That would pretty much shut everybody up wouldn’t it but, why worry, Bradwood/NSNG says Measure 4-131 ain’t going to slow them down a bit don’t they?
Curious to know, though, why they are spending money hand over fist in a huge P.R. Blitz?
On Sep 7, 1:22 PM, how unusual, double standards by McGee again wrote:
According to McGee, when something in the Daily Astorian is on it’s editorial page it doesn’t mean it represents the Daily Astorian’s opinion, just Forrestor’s, but when it comes out on NCO’s editorial page it represents all of NCO?
All of the Daily Astorian articles have been anti-LNG. The NCO articles have posted both the pros and the cons of the LNG issues in Clatsop County.
Double standards by MCGee? How unusual!
On Sep 7, 1:28 PM, and the lies continue wrote:
What is more curious is why you LIE about how much money Bradwood is supposedly spending on an imagined “campaign blitz”. No proof. Just pull something out of your ass. “Bright shiny object over there folks, don’t look at the glaring faults occurring in the Common Sense/FOG election reporting”!
Bradwood has been advertising for four years now. Where’s your PROOF that their advertising costs have INCREASED since the measure was approved to be on the September ballot?
Or do you subscribe to the philosophy that it is your “constitutional right to misinform as many people as you want, as often as you want” ala Cindy Price?
On Sep 7, 1:29 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Double Standard?
The big issue around here has been the spewing of misinformation and it appears NCO is suffering from the curse as well.
No Double Standard on my part, I’m staying on task.
Must I cut and paste the entire editorial piece to clarify what appears to be inaccuracy on the part of NCO’s reporting?
On Sep 7, 2:38 PM, this is what a double standard is, dork wrote:
Why is it that an EDITORIAL in the NCO is “REPORTING” but an EDITORIAL in the Daily A is merely an editors opinion?
On Sep 7, 2:45 PM, can you read? wrote:
OPINION page.
You seem to be able to GET IT when the Daily Astorian does it, but not when it is on the OPINION PAGE here.
What’s up with that?
On Sep 7, 2:49 PM, artful dodger wrote:
and he dodges the confrontation on his lie that was exposed! “Look folks, bright shiny object over there! Don’t look at the lie I am telling you regarding Bradwood supposedly running a campaign blitz! I pulled that fictious bit of information out of my ass! You weren’t supposed to call me on it!”
On Sep 7, 4:28 PM, tee hee hee wrote:
Old Patrick “Blinders” McGee gets pwned....again!!
On Sep 7, 5:32 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 7, 2:38 PM, this is what a double standard is, dork wrote:
Why is it that an EDITORIAL in the NCO is “REPORTING” but an EDITORIAL in the Daily A is merely an editors opinion?
On Sep 7, 2:45 PM, can you read? wrote:
OPINION page.
You seem to be able to GET IT when the Daily Astorian does it, but not when it is on the OPINION PAGE here.
What’s up with that?
Yeah, why is that?
What is up with that?
Good questions, both.
On Sep 7, 5:43 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 7, 2:49 PM, artful dodger wrote:
and he dodges the confrontation on his lie that was exposed! “Look folks, bright shiny object over there! Don’t look at the lie I am telling you regarding Bradwood supposedly running a campaign blitz! I pulled that fictious bit of information out of my ass! You weren’t supposed to call me on it!”
Awwwwwwww!!!! did you get your feelings hurt by having to face those nasty old, burdensome facts.
Poor thing.
On Sep 7, 6:07 PM, still waiting wrote:
What “facts”? Where are your FACTS? Where’s your PROOF that Bradwood’s advertising has increased since the measure has been put on September’s ballot?
On Sep 7, 6:42 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Ran pretty much all day long, day after day on KAST-AM and probably still running and they ain’t free.
Announcer;
“Why do you support Bradwood Landing?
Community volunteer, Swede Nyberg.”
Swede Nyberg;
“Brad wood Landing is probably the best thing that could happen to Clatsop County
on account of the jobs it creates, the wages they pay.
I just love that.”
Announcer;
“Bradwood Landing is good for the economy and good for the Columbia.”
______________________________________________________________________
On Sep 7, 6:45 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
The same
Announcer;
“Why do you support Bradwood Landing?
Business Manager of I .B.E.W.(International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) , Local 48, Cliff Davis.”
Cliff Davis;
If the Bradwood Landing project is not approved, I believe that the message that would be sent is that Oregon is not open to future economic development.
That we are going to place values of environment over economy, which is not realistic.
We need to create a balance between the two so that we have future “Family Wage” jobs in this area.”
Announcer;
“Bradwood Landing is good for the economy and good for the Columbia.”
______________________________________________________________________
On Sep 7, 6:47 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
The same
Announcer;
“Why do you support Bradwood Landing?
Bed and Breakfast owner, Joan Harvey-Chester”
Joan Harvey-Chester;
“I’m the owner of “The Villa at Little Cape Horn”, an upscale B&B;.
I know there’s a lot of people in the area that just come to stay at my place because they miss the river traffic.
The river traffic is a very big draw.
That’s why I’m excited about Bradwood Landing bringing more ships our way.
I support Bradwood Landing because the money it brings, supports the local economy and that supports tourism.”
Announcer;
“Bradwood Landing is good for the economy and good for the Columbia.”
On Sep 7, 6:49 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
The Same
Announcer;
“Why do you support Bradwood Landing?
Head of The Columbia-Pacific Building Trades Council, John Mollis(sp).”
John Mollis(sp);
“Bradwood Landing has negotiated a “Project Labor Agreement” with our council.
All of our local unions apprenticeship programs will be holding “Job Fairs” before the project starts and throughout the project, to try and attract young folks that live in those communities on the Lower Columbia into our apprenticeship programs.”
Announcer;
“Bradwood Landing is good for the economy and good for the Columbia.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________
On Sep 7, 6:50 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
The Same
Announcer;
“Why do you support Bradwood Landing?
Business owner, Steven(sp) Phillips.”
SSteven(sp) Phillips;
“With a major facility like this and the spin-off jobs that are going to happen, ahhh.. you add another sixty to seventy employees and now we’ve got service requirements jobs in the grocery store another restaurant that opens, ahhhhh… the spin-off economics are just phenomenal and the opportunities are great for kids.”
Announcer;
“Bradwood Landing is good for the economy and good for the Columbia.”
On Sep 7, 6:59 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
This partial array of testimonials were run very often before the Olympics, incessantly during the Olympics on NNB’s networks and are likely being run now and implys to me, at least a very aggressive and very expensive P.R. Campaign.
They are even benefitting Bradwood Landing as you have read them just now.
On Sep 7, 7:12 PM, State Fairly wrote:
...and rightly so.
On Sep 7, 7:24 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
And rightly so, Bradwood/NSNG has every right to spend as much money as they wish to try to head-off Meaure 4-131 but again, in those testimonials, the issue of misinformation versus factual information.
It never ends does it.
On Sep 7, 7:36 PM, ...... wrote:
These radical democrats are out to destroy the possiblity of an economy in Clatsop County. This measure hurts our economic future, if these nuts let us have one.
On Sep 7, 7:41 PM, no proof, per norm wrote:
Just as I thought, no PROOF. Your theory that it was aggressive because you noticed it more is not proof of anything. Your anecdote that it occurred more often does not prove it did.
On Sep 7, 7:59 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 7, 7:36 PM, ...... wrote:
These radical democrats are out to destroy the possiblity of an economy in Clatsop County. This measure hurts our economic future, if these nuts let us have one.
What “Radical Democrats are you referring to?
On Sep 7, 8:02 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
<i>On Sep 7, 7:41 PM, no proof, per norm wrote:
Just as I thought, no PROOF. Your theory that it was aggressive because you noticed it more is not proof of anything. Your anecdote that it occurred more often does not prove it did.>/i>
Ok, it never happened.
Feel better now?
It will be over soon.
On Sep 7, 8:53 PM, pistol pete wrote:
none of those ads on nnb never mentioned 4-131
win or loose i doubt its over
On Sep 7, 9:11 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 7, 8:53 PM, pistol pete wrote:
none of those ads on nnb never mentioned 4-131
win or loose i doubt its over
That’s right, it never happened.
On Sep 8, 7:06 AM, ...... wrote:
So the same pack that has been radical all along mcgee, the democratic central committee which by the way does not represent the views of all democrats in CC. Caplan of course spreading the untruths, then there’s the ever popular Rocka on the radio.
On Sep 8, 7:34 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 8, 7:06 AM, ...... wrote:
So the same pack that has been radical all along mcgee, the democratic central committee which by the way does not represent the views of all democrats in CC. Caplan of course spreading the untruths, then there’s the ever popular Rocka on the radio.
You seem to assume, with knowledge, what Caplan and Rokka are doing, I guess you can create your on truth, as well, on the motives of the local Democratic Party Central Committee’s intentions to insert as many of their members into local government as possible, hence, my surprise at Tom Freel’s seeming surprise at DPCC’s encouragement to ACC to take a position on LNG development in Clatsop County.
Laurie Caplan and Roger Rokka?
Both are well respected, contributing members of this community.
I do not, however, think this is the overall view of all Clatsop Democrats as it is not the overall view of local Republicans that LNG siting and development in Clatsop County is OK either.
On Sep 8, 10:04 AM, I am curious (yellow) wrote:
Laurie Caplan and Roger Rokka?
Both are well respected, contributing members of this community
Who are they and what do they do for livings?
On Sep 8, 10:09 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
If you have to fabricate it then it is a LIE. No matter how clever you fabricate it, it is still a lie because you know full well then it is not true or even accurate even to your own perspective.
Remember, guys, there is truth, there is lie and there is the actual (the fact) reality. All three are ALWAYS distinct and seperate. The evidence doesn’t lie or tell truths. It is just the actual. Truth and lies happens with the “Human Factor” - ie. when opinion is involved. Truth is the perspective (ie. subject to opinion and recollection limitations) of the person observing the event or reading the material. Lie is saying something that you know is false because you know the event didn’t happen that way. Facts are strictly how things happened. No opinions involved. The ball is on the floor, two feet from the chair. What forensics tells you.
On Sep 8, 10:09 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Their names are in the phone book.
Give them a call and ask them about their background.
I am certain they will be more than happy to talk to you.
The only risk to you might be that they would ask you your name.
On Sep 8, 10:24 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 8, 10:09 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
If you have to fabricate it then it is a LIE......... accurate even to your own perspective.
Remember, guys, there is truth, there is lie and there is the actual (the fact) reality. All three are ALWAYS distinct and seperate.....It is just the actual. Truth and lies happens with the “Human Factor” - ie. when opinion is involved. Truth is the perspection.............of the person observing the event or reading the material...... Facts are strictly how things happened. No opinions involved. The ball is on the floor, two feet from the chair. What forensics tells you.
And of course Mr. Smartass here’s truth is..."No it isn’t it’s really six feet from the wall and Mr. Dimwit there’s truth is..."No, it’s eight feet two feet from the ceiling.”
So Rick, who’s, of the 3 truths, prevail.
Silly analogy?
Maybe but, we all have our own way of what is truth and the interpretation of it but, spout pure conjecture as fact.
On Sep 8, 10:26 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Maybe but, we all have our own way of what is truth and the interpretation of it but, some of us spout pure conjecture as fact.
On Sep 8, 11:02 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Finally an analogy of a lie:
Mr. Jack Offalot sees the ball on the floor and then tells the investigating officer of the law in the report that the ball is on the ceiling.
On Sep 8, 11:07 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Sad thing, more often the lie is less bold an clear and is often intermingled with truths that can be reasonably verfiable. The art of b.s. is to make the lies subtle (in other words, the b.s.) less detectable.
So he would not lie about the ball’s position but something less and harder to obviously verify. He would lie about issues regarding his location at a specific time and about things regarding relationship issues. All of which is not as easily verifiable in materialistic ways.
On Sep 8, 11:21 AM, Nick wrote:
On Sep 8, 10:26 AM, Patrick McGee wrote: Maybe but, we all have our own way of what is truth and the interpretation of it but, some of us spout pure conjecture as fact.
Oh, I see. As in they are spending money hand over fist in a huge P.R. Blitz?
On Sep 8, 11:42 AM, AnotherAstorian wrote:
Patrick, seems like I pointed this out already in another post awhile back, but the ads you hear on KAST are the SAME ADS that they were using last year, and they’ve been running again for several months.
So what - they have a right to advertise, and near as I can tell, there isn’t a single bit of misinformation in any of those ads.
On Sep 8, 1:04 PM, I Am Curious (Blue) wrote:
Patrick McGee wrote:
Their names are in the phone book.
Give them a call and ask them about their background.
Well, if they’re so contributing and respected in the community I would rather hear what others say about them to qualify your, dare I say, usually disengenous and outright false claims.
On Sep 8, 1:44 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 8, 1:04 PM, I Am Curious (Blue) wrote:
Well, if they’re so contributing and respected in the community I would rather hear what others say about them to qualify your, dare I say, usually disengenous and outright false claims.
Of course you would.
Get everbody’s hearsay on an individual rather than face them directly with your queiries about their background and character to judge for yourself.
And of course, again, you may have to identify yourself to them before they respond.
The original title of “I am curious yellow” is more suitable for your anonymous moniker.
On Sep 8, 3:18 PM, Nick wrote:
Here we go again. McGee in spin cycle. Just like you have the courage to meet with Ann or Carrie or any of the others who have offered to meet with you over the years when you have harassed them on forums all over the ‘net?
On Sep 8, 3:51 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
By Ann you mean Comissioner Samuelson?
It is not my intention to meet privately with Commissioner Samuelson. Anything she has to say to me she can say in a BOCC meeting, This cyber rag or mine or any of her choosing, to all of us and I would prefer it that way to make certain it is public comment and on record.
Afterall Commissioner Samuelson serves us all, not just me.
Carrie?
Is this the Carrie Bartoldus that called me once with some inane questions about my business and how much a person like me charged for doing the work I do?
That’s the only Carrie I know of that has ever called me for any reason, much less to ask me for a meeting.
On Sep 8, 4:50 PM, I Am Curious (Yellow) wrote:
M, Patrick McGee wrote:
Get everbody’s hearsay on an individual rather than face them directly with your queiries about their background and character to judge for yourself.
Uh huh, this cyber rag or any of their choosing, to all of us and I would prefer it that way to make certain it is public comment and on record.
On Sep 8, 6:32 PM, Gavin Smith wrote:
Potential customers asking inane questions about a business they may want to use? Ye gawds, you are not only a coward but a jackass as well.
What kind of jackass keeps posting to a forum he has such disdain for?
On Sep 8, 7:55 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
LOL. Yeah, insane questions about asking for how much you charge for building design services? Patrick, explain? What’s so insane?
As a building designer, I would welcome such questions and be gladly to answer such a question.
Rick Balkins, Building Designer
As it stands, I’m already working (SLOWLY) on my business’s website at http://www.rickbalkinsbuildingdesign.com
There is still alot of work to do on it. After working on some of my own “stock designs” if you want to call it that but I prefer working on homes specifically for customer’s specs but sometimes they want something already prepared with maybe only a minor modification so I do that accordingly. More stuff would be up, later.
On Sep 8, 9:11 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
The word is “Inane” Rick not “insane”.
Of course, you can answer all the “insane” questions you wish.
On Sep 8, 9:16 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 8, 6:32 PM, Gavin Smith wrote:
What kind of jackass keeps posting to a forum he has such disdain for?
Why, to keep a balance of course.
On Sep 8, 9:38 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Ok, Patrick. Sorry, I must not have came across that particular word before. Wow, too many words in the english language. I thought you meant insane which inane would be a easy typo.
Anyway, since I checked out what the definition of that word is. Ok.
However, I would kind of wonder why it would be “silly”? Don’t you think it matters to the individual in order to determine if your price is within their price range and also to test how you respond to the questions to see if you are someone that they would want to work with.
Half the business is not how smart you are or you doing the work. It is in how you vocalize the words (tone, vocal expression, calm, softness but not necassarily quiet or excessively loub but clear) and what words you use. Since we grow up to pick up emotion via vocal and visual expression.
On Sep 8, 9:57 PM, OregonGuy wrote:
A Post in Four Parts: Part One
There have been a lot of thoughtful comments on this article and on other articles posted on this website. For those of you who have contributed to the discussion, I’d like to invite you to join us, those who have taken the time to establish a web presence, and create your own web presence.
If you’ve ever visited my “place” you’ve probably not noticed that it is a blogspot creation.
While I’m referred to as OregonGuy, the webspace is known as “oregonguythinks.blogspot.com”. OregonGuy has been my “nickname” for a few years. If you were old enough to remember early VoIP programs, that’s the name I picked for my old screen name. It’s not the name I use on Skype. But, technologies change.
On Sep 8, 9:58 PM, OregonGuy wrote:
A Post in Four Parts: Part Two
What I’ve seen here is an important development of voice. As in, I have a voice, and I want to be heard. And you should be heard. There’s nothing wrong with the 18th century tradition of pamphleteering. And that’s what I view by presence on teh intertubes as being. I am a pamphleteer. And someone else is paying my production costs. Cool beans.
There is an old Harlen Ellison story that set me back some thirty years ago. It was called “I Have No Voice and I Must Scream”. I think some of you have that inclination. But, it’s wrong.
You have a voice. You simply have to log onto “blogspot” and click a few buttons. You have a voice. And I want to hear it.
I understand that you don’t want to be seen as to be as extreme as some, or one, of the people who show up here on a regular basis to rant and rave about this or that.
On Sep 8, 9:59 PM, OregonGuy wrote:
A Post in Four Parts: Part Three
You don’t have to. You can choose what and when you want to write about your ideas, beliefs and insights. Building an on-line community doesn’t mean anyone will be checking to see if you posted today. Some of us post regularly. Some of us don’t. Do what you want. Just let us know that at least, occasionally, you’ll be posting. And we’ll take a look at your ideas.
Don’t worry about spelling, grammer or gerund forms. All of those will improve after practise. Writing a complete sentence is hard. That’s why I do it so rarely.
On Sep 8, 10:00 PM, OregonGuy wrote:
A Post in Four Parts: Part Four
But do it. In the words of Chairman Mao, “Let a hundred flowers blossom.” Be a flower. Find your voice. Share your views. It’s a great country, a great state, and a great county. Here a a couple of lines I came across tonight, from “The Emporer of Ocean Park”, by Stephen L. Carter. “...that within a generation or two nobody will think it either. Moral knowledge that remains secret eventually ceases to be knowledge.
“Although it may still be moral.”
Find your voice. Let me find your link below on the “Clatsop Blog Network”.
Thanks.
.
On Sep 9, 12:18 AM, Prarie Pup wrote:
Patrick McGee wrote:
Laurie Caplan and Roger Rokka?
Both are well respected, contributing members of this community.
Says who and how so?
On Sep 9, 9:09 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 9, 12:18 AM, Prarie Pup wrote:
Patrick McGee wrote:
Laurie Caplan and Roger Rokka?
Both are well respected, contributing members of this community.
Says who and how so?
I would say, everybody that knows them well has witnessed their hard work and commitment to many issues that impact our lives in the community.
On Sep 9, 9:18 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
“Although it may still be moral.”
Find your voice. Let me find your link below on the “Clatsop Blog Network”.
Thanks.
Might have missed your point in your four part post but, what’s the “Clatsop Blog Network”, “Oregon Guy”?
This something new here?
Looks like “Oregon Blogs” is curtailing his site operations.
On Sep 9, 9:43 AM, Prarie Pup wrote:
Patrick McGee wrote:
I would say, everybody that knows them well has witnessed their hard work and commitment to many issues that impact our lives in the community.
Could you be a little more vague for the benefit of the readership who don’t know them at all and knows nothing of their committment to many issues that impact our lives?
Specifically, what has either of these people you seem to hold in high esteem done for the community? I am really curious because I know absolutely nothing about them. You suggest I “ask everybody who knows them well”, but fail to specify just who “everybody” is.
In short, just looking for some qualification of your claims. Not because I don’t believe you, it’s just after living here for 60 years and knowing a gazzillion people from all walks of local life I’ve never ran across these two
On Sep 9, 10:03 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:43 AM, Prarie Pup wrote:
In short, just looking for some qualification of your claims. Not because I don’t believe you, it’s just after living here for 60 years and knowing a gazzillion people from all walks of local life I’ve never ran across these two
Do what any human being with the least common sense would do if you are that curious, find the nearest telephone, a telephone directly, open it up, find their names which, I am certain are still listed, call them each, summon the courage to introduce yourself and ask them whatever questions you wish to ask them.
I’ve been living here about 15 years. Never heard of you either.
On Sep 9, 10:13 AM, !!!!!! wrote:
Hey Prairie Pup, just look for the anti lng red shirts and the no lng pipes in parks campaign...they are big players in that market, they’ve obviously made their living elsewhere and could give a hoot whether anybody has a job or energy for that matter.
On Sep 9, 10:14 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
What has these people done beyond being a political mouth piece telling everyone how they should live. I don’t recall ever asking for their opinion? Does anyone else here? That is the attitude that p*sses off the locals. Some bozo comes up out of the blue and tries to influence and tell everyone what they should do in their community. Oft, to their own personal interests.
I want to know what these people done for people in terms of service to the people of this community. Serving in food bank? Serving in an elected position, running a business that *hires* people in this community - not just family members or close friends of the family or son’s girlfriend or daughter’s boyfriend. Ok, how have these people actually done something for us. I say a police officer does service for us. Sometimes, there are negative times but overall. Volunteer firefighter, yeah. I want to know actions. There is nothing wrong with being in public and is good for our community to speak but still.
On Sep 9, 10:46 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Mr. Rokka was Executive Director of The Astoria-Warrenton Chamber of Commerce for many years prior to Skip Hauke taking that position.
Ms. Caplan is well known as a Psychological Counselor in the community as well as a longtime community volunteer in many areas.
On Sep 9, 12:11 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Alright, that sounds find to me.
Certainly, I would be willing to talk with these individuals when I have time but my main concern with calling up some people is that they are simply plain out “emotionally distressed to point beyond able to have a civil and rational conversation” on the topic where there may be opposing views.
I’ve seen a few of such people that gets all tweaked and bent and therefore there is no rational or civil conversation on the subject matter. Most of these folks don’t call simply because they have seen too many people “so over the edge” that it is not reasonable to talk to them.
On Sep 9, 12:16 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Most of these folks don’t call simply because they have seen too many people ....
should read:
Most of the folks here don’t call....
Anyway, I’ve seen some people here in the community that is emotionally distressed/overly attached that objectivity can not be remotely possible. Those conversations ends up being more stressful to me then if I never bothered. Leaving the conversation with a headache and get nothing but emotional outbursts just doesn’t help to have rational, civil and constructive conversations.
Are these people anything like that on this topic?
On Sep 9, 12:35 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
They ain’t gonna call nobody Rick.
On Sep 9, 1:43 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
The common saying is “What is the point?”
Why call someone who is adament and not going to care or listen to anyone else’s opinion. In other words, there is no point in arguing with a zealot and debating such topics.
For me, I guess I tend to be an exception and just plain arrogant enought to do so.
When people are vocal, they are people that are opinionated and stuck in their viewpoint with adament emotion will not debate in any form civil, rational or calmly and will not allow a two way communication and interrupt their opposition. Without an open mind, such debates oft to lead to futility and a waste.
On Sep 9, 1:52 PM, WELL-KNOWN as in wrote:
If someone is “well known” for doing something the last thing you need to do is call them up to ask them what they have done. That isn’t the definition of “well known”. Its called being a legend in one’s own mind.
Rocka was infamous as executive director of The Astoria-Warrenton Chamber of Commerce. Nil was accomplished during his reign.Lots of blame tossed around & lots of confusion. Per Price’s Principle, now we understand why.
Caplan as a psychological counselor, I would rather go to Dr. Real! Pat hasn’t the foggiest idea what Caplan’s done except answer the phone for KMUN, he had to wait for an email to tell him what her part time job even was.
WELL-KNOWN! As in E Nyberg, S Hauke, M Frimoth, D Holmes, M Scholerman, M Caseborn,etc… people who don’t toot their own horns but work hard for others, the real silent majority.
On Sep 9, 1:54 PM, Prarie Pup wrote:
Patrick McGee wrote:
I’ve been living here about 15 years. Never heard of you either.
For a tourist you don’t get out much, do you.
On Sep 9, 2:00 PM, Nick wrote:
I’ve talked with Emil, Skip, Margaret, Mike, Denny and Megan and disagreed on several issues and yet feel like we have a common regard of respect for one another. I’ve talked with Roger and Laurie and if you don’t agree with them your an “idiot who is incapable of thinking for yourself” someone who “merely follows the crowd”. I have never heard the former refer to people they disagree with as crooks, I have never heard the latter say anything nice about people who have differing opinions. I know the former through several different organizations and events, I know the latter through only two (and seeing who the treasurer is on both it is actually one) organization.
On Sep 9, 2:52 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 9, 2:00 PM, Nick wrote:
I’ve talked with Emil, Skip, Margaret, Mike, Denny and Megan and disagreed on several issues and yet feel like we have a common regard of respect for one another. I’ve talked with Roger and Laurie and if you don’t agree with them your an “idiot who is incapable of thinking for yourself” someone who “merely follows the crowd”. I have never heard the former refer to people they disagree with as crooks, I have never heard the latter say anything nice about people who have differing opinions. I know the former through several different organizations and events, I know the latter through only two (and seeing who the treasurer is on both it is actually one) organization.
Since you feel so entitled to pass judgement on Laurie and Roger....Who are you?
On Sep 9, 3:55 PM, Nick Fan wrote:
So good it deserves posting again!!
Nick wrote:
I’ve talked with Emil, Skip, Margaret, Mike, Denny and Megan and disagreed on several issues and yet feel like we have a common regard of respect for one another. I’ve talked with Roger and Laurie and if you don’t agree with them your an “idiot who is incapable of thinking for yourself” someone who “merely follows the crowd”. I have never heard the former refer to people they disagree with as crooks, I have never heard the latter say anything nice about people who have differing opinions. I know the former through several different organizations and events, I know the latter through only two (and seeing who the treasurer is on both it is actually one) organization.
On Sep 9, 4:52 PM, Nick wrote:
What “judgment” have I passed?
On Sep 9, 6:28 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 9, 4:52 PM, Nick wrote:
What “judgment” have I passed?
Well, actually you haven’t passed any judgement at all of any validity as you refuse to indentify yourself in your criticism of Mr. Rokka or Ms. Caplan and who can substantiate whether any of the others you seem to infer you have talked to even know who you are either?
Right now you’re batting a thousand at zero.
On Sep 9, 7:12 PM, pup of the prarie wrote:
Patrick McGee wrote:
Since you feel so entitled to pass judgement on Laurie and Roger..
Nick wrote:
What “judgment” have I passed?></b
Patrick McGee wrote:
Well, actually <b>you haven’t passed any judgement at all
FLIP FLOPPER!! McGee is FLIP FLOPPER!!
nick pulls his string and McGee starts to Flip Flop
On Sep 9, 7:28 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Yeah, “Pup”, Nick, Two times zero equals zero.
On Sep 9, 7:49 PM, Uniontown Supreme Court wrote:
The court finds that Nick beat McGee like a tambourine at a Salvation Army Kegger
Case closed
On Sep 9, 7:55 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 9, 7:49 PM, Uniontown Supreme Court wrote:
The court finds that Nick beat McGee like a tambourine at a Salvation Army Kegger
Case closed
And then there are three.
Yes indeed a huge victory.
Case closed.
On Sep 10, 11:53 AM, Nick wrote:
I am giving my opinion on HOW someone goes about determining whether or not someone is well-known. It doesn’t matter whether or not you believe I have talked to anyone. That isn’t even the point. Your spinning always ignores the pink elephant in the room, which is your glaring problem.
On Sep 10, 6:29 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
On Sep 10, 11:53 AM, Nick wrote:
I am giving my opinion on HOW someone goes about determining whether or not someone is well-known. It doesn’t matter whether or not you believe I have talked to anyone. That isn’t even the point. Your spinning always ignores the pink elephant in the room, which is your glaring problem.
So, who are you?
On Sep 10, 10:20 PM, Nick wrote:
What has that to do with the topic of the article?
I wasn’t aware this was a dating or relationship site.
On Sep 10, 10:45 PM, Peter Witt wrote:
Nick wrote:
What has that to do with the topic of the article?
Nothing, nothing at all.
It’s just McGee attempting to hide his chronic paranoia behind irrelevant questions.
On Sep 15, 3:26 AM, Richpix wrote:
36" Natural Gas Pipeline Explodes
On Sep 15, 2:44 PM, Broken Guest wrote:
Maybe we should take it a step further and remove all utilities from parks and open spaces. No gas, water, phone, electricity, sewer. Would that make the River Keepers happy?
On Sep 15, 3:06 PM, wondering wrote:
How much does Caplan get paid to spread this propaganda...saw the no lng stuff on top of the obama sign downtown, offensive to working democrats.
On Sep 15, 9:48 PM, They are embarrassing!! wrote:
So the no lng signs over the OBAMA sign make me want to think about becoming a republican....it seems it’s required that you’re a person who literally mixes it all together, then you can fit into this local crowd of local democrats...it is embarressing to claim your a democrat in this county with the current leadership of the party here. Tell me Betsy doesn’t approve of this nonsense...I’ve always believed in her!!
On Sep 15, 10:06 PM, Betsy is a boil on Clatsop County's butt wrote:
I lost my confidence in the Bitsy when she refused to go to bat for the Commissioners and stuck her nose in regarding the DA’s stipend. She should have told him to do what was required for a transparent office. She should have said that she supported local government control of the siting of the LNG facility and commended the efforts of the commissioners. She should have commented on the fact that the record was left open for weeks so that all the letters could be filed, on the record, with the permitting process. She should have commented on the fact that there has never been a board of county commissioners who has turned over 30,000+ pages to LUBA on a land use decision. She did nothing but cause problems and take huge sound bites out of the air waves. She’s a loser in my book.