Opinion
What is the Biggest Issue Facing Clatsop County at this time?
Part Deux!On one end of the county residents are divided over school issues while across from them on the coast neighbors fight over the height of their homes. Further north people are concerned whether or not the next storm could wipe them out, if the necessary warning systems are in place and if they could survive for the days, or even weeks, it could take for help to arrive. At the other end of the county residents are boiling water in order to get a drink. In between north and south county, septic systems are failing and in disrepair, or are in a constant state of flux. The whole county is boiling about LNG, or is it? Are most people concerned one way or another regarding energy, fuel or the ballot measure? What do you think is the most important issue facing Clatsop County, at this time and what should be done about it?
Comments so far that are unreadable because they went past the 100 limit:
Rick Balkins 2008-08-19 03:31 PM BOCC amended OPR for pipes and cables as CONDITIONAL USES. Requires approval of BOCC/Planning Commission in order to get permits.
AnotherAstorian 2008-08-19 03:36 PM “On Aug 19, 3:14 PM, disgusted voter wrote: For the most part I think the referendum will be voted down because people don’t understand what the hell is going on so they just won’t vote, leaving the door wide open for the crazies. Most people I talk to don’t understand that a “no” vote CHANGES things, and a “yes” vote keeps it so we have local control over our variances instead of ONE blanket law pertaining to ALL OPR. If this is voted down a new referendum demanding that ALL lands be rezoned. Only the bare minimum being referred to as OPR.”
Thank you Disgusted Voter – exactly. And my point, Patrick, was that you’ve been saying over and over that there might only be 10-20 jobs, and I just wanted to prove my point.
Lawrence 2008-08-19 04:02 PM A “no” vote usually means “no” but I read it as bait and switch with a “no” removing our local control. The Daily Ass todays witch hunt for push poll people, but as usually no evidence just rhetoric blaming LNG. I thought reporting usually required facts but not in this county. It’s sad,sad,sad what the Daily has become. The Desmo Zone on Monday had another anti LNG rhetoric left spin but I concede it’s fair to allow both side to speak as he is having “Bradwood” on Wednesday. Daily “A” take note.
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"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." ~ George Bernard Shaw "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." ~Thomas Jefferson (Thanks, Auntie)
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25 Comments
On Aug 19, 4:19 PM, Daily Rag at it again wrote:
My husband was called by this poll done by Gateway Com. He was asked for specifically by name. The pollster called back for one week until they were able to talk to him. They asked if he was aware of a development taking place in Clatsop County at the Bradwood Landing and if he supported it or opposed it. He said he was aware of it and supported it. He was then asked if there would be any chance that something could be done to change his mind. He replied no. The pollster then hung up.
Sounds like unusual behavior if it was being done BY Bradwood Landing. Why would Bradwood want to know if they could do something to change his mind?
On Aug 19, 5:33 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Thank you Disgusted Voter – exactly. And my point, Patrick, was that you’ve been saying over and over that there might only be 10-20 jobs, and I just wanted to prove my point.
My reference, over and over, is usually 10-20-30-40-50-60 Jobs.
Fact is you don’t know, I don’t know and likely nobody else knows how many end jobs there will be to this day.
Some are saying 45 Jobs.
My listing of jobs was by no means specific to Bradwood and I qualified that.
On Aug 19, 6:46 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Got that same Gateway.com call, same questions.
On Aug 19, 8:49 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:
Patrick...Yes, I happen to know, cause I’ve been paying attention and asking the questions, and have gone down to the office and seen the preliminary list of positions that will be available. Your list is pretty accurate, except that there are multiple people for some positions. There will be about 50 full time jobs, plus out-sourced security and tug crews at Bradwood Landing. And you can bet they’ll pay a heckuva lot more than the average job around here. Although I’m retired, I don’t care for myself, but feel very positive about the jobs our young people will get there.
On Aug 19, 8:55 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:
And before you say it, Patrick, I will....Regardless of what the oppostion is saying, the majority of jobs will NOT go to people from the outside. Yes, probably the Plant Manager will, and maybe the Shift Supervisors, because those people must have prior experience, which nobody around here would be. There will be training classes offered thru the Community College for the other positions. So out of the 50 or so jobs available, 45+ will be available for those here that have the initiative to learn.
On Aug 19, 9:01 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:
Lawrence....people need to really READ and UNDERSTAND this referendum...which is sad, cause most won’t. If UNDERSTAND it, they would realize that a YES vote is what is needed...and that will allow our Commissioners to do their jobs! PLEASE spread the word!
This referendum is a joke, which will come back to bite us for years to come if it fails! Oh, and thanks to the ballot language, as much as I adore Judge Matyas, she doesn’t get my vote the next time she comes up...sorry Cindy
On Aug 27, 6:58 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
So, what, exactly, is it a “Yes” vote means “AA”?
On Aug 27, 11:58 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
A yes vote means that pipelines and cables are “conditionally” allowed to pass through open spaces, parks and recreation in accordance with policy/procedures of conditions that the County indicates are part of the conditions of site.
This means that the County can establish policies/procedures that indicates that pipelines that are pressurized and located underground that if ruptured could injure or kill someone located over it or near it may not be permitted in areas used by public as recreational areas, public parks or open spaces opened to the public that is publically owned.
On Aug 27, 11:59 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Privately owned property in this zone would be permitted to have pipelines at appropriate depth. There can also be a slew of other “conditions” including re-planting with native species grass and other non-obstructive plants that do not have maximum root depths deeper then 1-ft. within 20-ft. of the pipe. It can be open but minimize damages.
The conditions can be VERY strict so that although it maybe a “conditional use”, the conditional use rules will not EVER permit it in areas of actual parks or recreational areas. If on private areas, NO use of private OPR over an easement/exclusion zone may EVER be permitted to be used used for public use. Refering to a rule of “restriction”. Existing OPR that are privately owned may be allowed to conditionally have such a pipeline, if the OPR zoned property is only an open space.
On Aug 28, 12:00 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
If the pipeline is installed, a restriction zone would be made that prohibits those portions to be used as a public park or recreation area and the size of that restricted zone shall be no less then the appropriate regulated standards may indicate and be established by the County Planning Commission and agreed upon.
The high-pressure pipeline shall NEVER be permitted in the terms of the “conditions” in publically owned OPR - EVER. Privately owned OPR that is used for public use such as a park or recreation area shall never be permitted UNLESS a restriction zone “easement” is made. Calling it a “Restriction”. Much like the easement rules for utilities but of higher standards and be closed off from public use.
On Aug 28, 12:01 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Utilities of standard pressure as usual for residential and light commercial application shall be permitted in OPR without restriction on uze zones that shall be closed off from public use. This also would include NO tables or benches or buildings would be located in these restricted zones. Appropriate signs and fences shall be located at the boundary within 5-ft. or the borderlines of the restriction zone.
This would be kind of a model of such a condition policy.
On Aug 28, 12:01 AM, this is what it means wrote:
That CONDITIONALLY pipelines and cables for ENERGY and other TECHNOLOGY will be allowed in DEPENDENT on each, separate, project that applies for a conditional permit.
A NO vote means that Clatsop County will be completely isolated from ALL energy, whether it is renewable or fossil. It will be completely isolated from ALL technology. NO cables, no pipelines, whether or not they are underground, whether or not the technology now exists to make them virtually as safe as McGee’s Nuclear Power Plants.
On Aug 28, 4:33 AM, Jon Dana wrote:
Thank you Mr. Balkins, hope to see your name on a few more ballots beside the college. You always bring common sense and a way of explaining everything in detail, to even satisfy the the other opinion. Your respect value is well above some of us mud-rakers.
On Aug 28, 8:06 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Bright guy that Balkins, Dana but, unfortunately none of his language in in that change perpetrated by BOCC for NSNG.
Below in the heading on the revised ordinance 08-05.
Read it and tell me where any controlling language is.
AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO THE
BRADWOOD LANDING LNG PROPOSAL
AND AMENDING THE CLATSOP COUNTY
COMBINED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND
ZONING MAP, THE TEXT OF THE CLATSOP
COUNTY COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND
THE TEXT OF THE CLATSOP COUNTY
LAND AND WATER DEVELOPMENT AND USE
ORDINANCE.
On Aug 28, 8:08 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Here is what the BOCC is allowing with absolutely no oversight control language at all and a generalization so broad as to make this OPR zoning so diluted it sets a terribly dangerous precedent, in my view.
LWDUO - Section 3.586-5 - Provisions of LWDUO are amended to list, “Cable, Sewerline, Waterline or other Pipeline” as a Conditional Use in the OPR Zone as described in Section - 6.
LWDUO - Section 3.586-6 - LWDUO 3.586(10) is amended to state; “10. Cable, Sewerline, Waterline, or other Pipeline” and the current LWDUO 3.586(10) is made LWDUO 3.586(11)
On Aug 28, 10:40 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
The above wording is in no way, in my opinion, selective on a per project basis. It has become part of the language of the ordinace and outright allows Transmission Pipelines, Cable, Sewer, Water Rights of way as a Conditional Use over and above Site Utilities.
On Aug 28, 10:56 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
True but usually policies of conditional uses tends to be in a seperate book. What I presented was a model for a conditional use policy. That wouldn’t be located in that portion of the document.
Agree, the way the County Commissioners prepared it is incomplete in the picture without working on a policy for conditional uses regarding high-pressure pipelines like the model. It can be added in if we do the work right away if the majority of votes for the referendum is “Yes” votes. If “No”, the change isn’t made and legally, they can go through the step of re-working the language of OPR zones for such purposes but do it better with a policy. At political risk.
On Aug 28, 11:06 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Conditional uses are NEVER outright. Review City of Astoria ordinances for understanding zoning laws and how it works and that is how this works for the County. They call it Land Use laws but it’s zoning laws on county lands versus municipalities.
ALL CONDITIONAL USES requires a review by the County Planning Commission and BOCCC and comply with an established policy for the type of use. It need not be placed in the LWDUO but certainly in the language of any for conditional use alterations should be located or noting what book or policy document in reference. If for ease, group all policies of conditions in a manual called “Clatsop County Conditional Uses Policies” volumes 1-x (x being the number of volumes as sometimes this can become multiple binders) for example.
They probably already do have such.
On Aug 28, 11:24 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
In fact, in Section 3.588, They should add a policy that simply states:
As an example:
(6) High-pressure pipeline, sewerline, waterline and/or large diameter cables (defined in “Conditions for High Pressure Pipelines, Waterlines, Sewerline and large diameter cables in OPR Zone” document) located in OPR zone shall comply with the conditions outlined in “Conditions for High Pressure Pipelines, Waterlines, Sewerline and large diameter cables in OPR Zone” document.
Then develop the document - “Conditions for High Pressure Pipelines, Waterlines, Sewerline and large diameter cables in OPR Zone”
In fact, if we vote “No”, we can come together to develop this docuent and go through this step. BOCCC, you guys listening?
On Aug 28, 3:19 PM, marge wrote:
Absolutely NOT, Balkins.
CONDITIONAL USE is NOT outright permitting cables and pipelines. If it was OUTRIGHT they would remove the words, CONDITIONAL USE.
On Aug 28, 4:25 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
LWDUO Ordinance - SECTION 3.586 - Conditional Development and Use in OPR Zoned Properties; The following developments and their accessory developments may be permitted under a Type II procedure and Sections 5.010 and 5.025 subject to applicable criteria and development standards and site plan review.
1. Campgrounds
2. Group Camping Facilities
3. RV Park (Subject to S3.550)
4. Resorts and associated favilities
5. Hunting and Fishing Clubs
6. Riding Stables and Trails
7. Marinas, Boat Launchings and Moorage Facilities
8. Structures for Viewing or Exhibition of Natural resources
9. Accessory Development in conjunction with the above
10. Cemetery
11. Cable, Sewerline, Waterline, or other Pipeline”
(Here is where it was instructed for it to go.)
12. Other Developments within a Historical Structure provided the use
would not result in the modification of the outward appearance
of the structure.
On Aug 28, 4:38 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Section 5.025. Requirements for Conditional Development and Use.
In permitting a conditional development and use, the hearing body may impose any of the following conditions as provided by Section 5.015:
1. Limit the manner in which the use is conducted, including restricting the time an activity may take place and restraints to minimize such environmental effects as noise, vibration, air pollution, glare and odor.
2. Establish a special yard or other open space or lot area or dimension.
3. Limit the height, size or location of a building or other structure.
4. Designate the size, number, location or nature of vehicle access points.
5. Increase the amount of street dedication, roadway width or improvements within the street right-of-way.
6. Designate the size, location, screening, drainage, surfacing or other improvement of a parking or truck loading areas.
7. Limit or otherwise designate the number, size, location, height of or lighting of signs.
On Aug 28, 4:39 PM, Continued wrote:
9. Require diking, screening, landscaping or another facility to protect adjacent or nearby property and designate standards for installation or maintenance of the facility.
10. Designate the size, height, location or materials for a fence.
Require the protection of existing trees, vegetation, water resources, wildlife habitat or other significant natural resources.
11. Require provisions for public access (physical and visual) to natural, scenic and recreational resources.
12. Specify other conditions to permit the development of the County in conformity with the intent and purpose of the classification of development.
On Aug 28, 4:42 PM, One More wrote:
8. Limit the location and intensity of outdoor lighting or require its shielding.
On Aug 28, 5:12 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Yes and that is why I mentioned Adding item (6) into Section 3.588 which bypasses and directs it to a document specific to conditions requirements which can and should entail all standard County conditions as would be applicable AND additional criterias specific to pipelines and also defining certain terms. In other words - it bypasses Section 5.025 to an external criteria document which would apply ALL appropriate standard County conditions as well as additional standards. Being a seperate document, given the conditions for the variety of different pipelines and cables and referenced standards like “In addition to ALL FERC regulated requirements, high pressure natural gas pipelines shall comply with these following conditions:” then a list of conditions and so on.