Opinion
I love Astoria.
I love Astoria. I love Clatsop County as well. The unique nature and quaintness of our area creates an emotional bond for me like few other areas can. Nothing drives home this point better than traveling out of the area.
On a recent trip to Boise, I was whisked from the airport and driven down a high way and delivered to a hotel that looked like all other hotels in a part of town that looked like too many developing towns across America. I saw the presence of every franchised business in the country. There were vast parking lots that hosted spaces for people to park while they roamed like zombies shopping and eating in concrete block buildings with familiar signs and banners.
I was in Boise for a speaking engagement, so my bio was listed along with the bios of other presenter in the agenda pamphlet that was handed out at the conference. My bio showed that my home in Astoria, Oregon. Many people made their way to me during the social hour to tell me that they have been in Astoria, and that they absolutely loved their visit to our beautiful community. They asked me about the Astoria Column and the Columbia Café. They commented about the old County Jail, the Flavel House and other museums. They brought up the many of the movies that were filmed here.
Here I was in a different time zone, in a town that could easily pass as Beaverton or Wilsonville or Vancouver with shopping malls and stores with large red signs. It seemed that these people know that their town is no longer unique. It has been ruined by the sameness that has been spread across America like a corporate virus that makes all things familiar to every one while pumping cash from their pockets and shipping it off to corporate HQ in another city that looks just like it came from.
It became obvious to me that Astoria is an oasis in a country of viral sameness. Visitors hold Astoria dear in their memories. I would like to hold Astoria dearly in my memory as well. I want to walk and drive through the town for years to come and not be insulted by an onslaught of corporate cement block sprawl with their artificial landscapes and their big red signs and parking lot lights that illuminate our beautiful night sky.
With national consumer trends favoring bigger and more it is probably only a matter of time before we fall victim to the spreading corporate virus that has already choked local economies through out the developed world. National ad campaigns lull into a false sense of familiarity that these companies want to be our good neighbors yet only a small percentage of their profits ever replenish the community spring.
We should savor what we have. We need to remember the Astoria of the present because when it goes it will go fast. Consider what Warrenton looked like from the bridge to Clatsop Plains twenty years ago. Consider what it looks like now, and ponder what it will look like 20 years from now.
We think that all the property in Astoria is locked up and that major development can’t happen, but property gets sold and buildings get replaced all the time. Sadly we are on the map, and the profiteers are on their way. Who would have envisioned three large hotels and a super Safeway twenty years ago? Who would have envisioned river front condos and a multi-plex theater in our sleepy town? Who would have envisioned all the auto dealers moving out of town?
This freight train won’t be stopped. I’m sure change will continue and we will eventually look like another homogenized. We will see our friends and neighbors wearing uniform vests to work. Our hard earned lucre will end up in corporate bank accounts in Oklahoma and be used to further spread the corporate virus to developing town and nations that are on the map and in their sights.
It is simply a good time to look around and take inventory of our uniqueness. Remember it fondly and hold it dear. It will all disappear only when we forget.
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55 Comments
On Mar 26, 8:33 AM, Jim Osborn wrote:
There is only one reason that there are shopping malls and retail outlets across Boise. There are people living there that demand those stores. The monies wouldn’t have been invested in those concrete palaces if shoppers weren’t there to spend money!!! Our town has empty store fronts and buildings that are falling down for one very important reason..... there aren’t enough family wage jobs in Clatsop County to support the businesses that would use those storefronts. 30 years ago, an aluminum company wanted to place a smelter in Warrenton, but that family wage provider was run out of the county by the same group of hippies that are opposed to LNG today. History is repeating itself.
Downtown Astoria has been locked up for years, because there simply isn’t the money in the community to spur any major development to happen. Those who work at McDonald, Burger King or Subway can barrely afford to pay their rent, let alone feed their family or purchase property.
Now the hippies have managed to remove a pro-business Commissioner from the County, and treaten the remaining board members who’ve attempted to actually bring a few family wage jobs to the county. They’ve also managed to lock up the forests through litigation, shutting down the once lucrative logging industry, then blaming it on “Clear cutting”...... If they actually knew anything about the logging industry and understood what replanting means, they would support what was once a thriving industry.
On Mar 26, 10:14 PM, remember what we lost 25 years ago wrote:
Where were these people? Why didn’t they vote? In Lee’s district there were 4,265 eligible and only 2,665 exercised their right to vote. 1600 people didn’t vote. If people do not start showing up at the BOCC meetings and out number the red shirts we will end up with worse than what we have now as we go into the recession.
Yes . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,732 65.26
No. . . . . . . . . . . . . 922 34.74
PRECINCTS COUNTED (OF 7) . . . . . 7 100.00
REGISTERED VOTERS - TOTAL . . . . . 4,265
BALLOTS COUNTED - TOTAL. . . . . . 2,665
On Mar 27, 6:17 PM, an idea for downtown wrote:
IMHO, in Astoria I think it would be great to walk from the Post Office to the old Chris’ News and be able to “one stop shop” but from a variety of independently owned shops. I mean like how they do it in Europe and used to do it here. Trade shops I think they call it. You go to the bake shop to get your breads, go to the butchers to get your meats, fish market, then the vegetable market, the fruit stand, then to the children’s clothing shop, the linen shop, the undergarment shop, the womans shop, the mens shop. And so forth. All in all I would bet it would be no longer of a walk then in one of the malls in Portland. If they would connect all the awnings so the walking would be nice in the nastier weather people could take their evening walks and window shop, getting their exercise done while they make the next days shopping list.
On Mar 28, 1:36 AM, A Proud Native wrote:
Sorry to break it to you, but there haven’t been any family wages in the entire USA for quite some time now, unless of course you are lucky enough to own your own business. The lack of wages is not just an Astoria problem, it is happening all across the USA. You do know we are in a Recession don’t you?
No one is going to want to visit, shop, live, eat, buy or sleep here with that horrible smell coming from an LNG plant. Is that what you want? To go back to the 1970s and 1980s when ALL of the houses and buildings were crumbling into oblivion because no one was fixing them up?
I would love to know exactly which one of you in Warrenton has a college degree. And without that college degree, who among you will be able to get hired on to work at one of these so called jobs at the LNG plant? No really, I would love to know just exactly what these so jobs are that you are fighting for? You know why you haven’t seen that list of jobs LNG is promising you? Because they are already filled!
What about those old family farms that will have to shut down, and all those people who will be losing their homes and their land over eminent domain because of the pipeline? That is a very real nightmare that people are freaking out about it over in Forest Grove, our neighbors. Texas is NOT our neighbor.
Texas is much, much, much worse than California.
You should be supporting Clatsop County, and NOT TEXAS!!!!
Shame on you! You don’t care about your county, you don’t care about those who will lose their farms, you don’t are about the environment, you don’t care about the salmon, you don’t about America and it is obvious that the only thing any of you care about is yourself, everyone and everything else, be damned. Talk about un-Patriotic!
If you want more jobs here in the USA, then QUIT BUYING CRAP MADE IN CHINA. If you buy anything from CHINA, then consider yourself a red shirt commie pinko because you are supporting CHINA with your wallet.
Support the USA - not CHINA!!!!
On Mar 28, 9:51 AM, Jim Osborn wrote:
The statement about “terrible smell” makes your entire rant meaningless, as you’re obviously not smart enough to think for yourself or you’re full of lies.
THINK about it!!! NATURAL GAS IS AN ODORLESS, COLORLESS GAS!!!!
As for the “family wage jobs”.... Yes, those jobs may already be filled. So what?? The whole point of this fight is the question of whether or not Clatsop County is business friendly!!! We’ve suffered for the last 30 years because of the rejection of AMAX. We sent out a clear message that big business was unwelcome in Clatsop County. We are sending out that message again. If LNG is run out, Clatsop County will suffer for another 30 years. We have a wonderful port that should be the biggest and best on the west coast, but our anti-business climate has stiffled any progress. District 3 just recalled a pro-business County Commisioner. What message does that send out??Is a dead Clatsop County with only service level jobs really what you want for your Grandkids???
On Mar 28, 12:10 PM, LNG works for those who see wrote:
Emotionalism when you can’t win with facts “consider yourself a red shirt commie pinko” and talking to the Northwest haven for the “commies” throughout the 20th century! Hahaha! Shows what you know of the history of here! The things is, folks, here we are either singing to the choir or to the deaf. Yes, keep coming back for the moral support but get off the dang computer and talk to your neighbor, tell them what the red shirted (chuckle, and if they are of the paranoid ilk you can emphasize the red, lol) rich people are planning on yanking the food off their table so they can gaze across the river whenever they (like Forrester) can be bothered to look up from counting their stakes of money. Make them aware of the FACT that most of them already USE natural gas, can afford to pay for it to come from Canada and quite possibly have STOCK in those companies. THEY don’t want cheaper natural gas for US. Also, these same people have CLOSED DOWN a project to have NATURAL wind turbine project on the Columbia Gorge! WHY? Because it ruined THEIR view of the river. Their rant that they want us to turn to more natural resources is a bunch of CRAP!
Their VIEW, their PLEASURES, they are inconvenienced by OUR lives!!! While they sit on their dough we pay for it! How fair is that?
On Mar 28, 12:31 PM, Miller Sands wrote:
On Mar 28, 12:36 AM, A Proud Native wrote:
Sorry to break it to you, but there haven’t been any family wages in the entire USA for quite some time now
Gee, I hope those people making $30 per/hr out at Waunna know that…
On Mar 28, 12:38 PM, Just Thinkin' wrote:
So the latest opinion is that the Daily A believes we need affordable housing/low income and affordable childcare. That is a great idea given so many entitled folks have moved here and want to eat well, drink well, etc., oh and the art thing as well. They need servants, so let’s get ready for Clatsop County to have more hotel maids, side line cooks, waitresses, maybe even a shoe shiner or two!! Then we can keep these folks happy, because when they aren’t happy, ain’t nobody going to be happy. I hope those folks that want industry and jobs start to show up in large numbers, unless they’ve gotten used to doing with less, going to the food bank instead of the grocery store, not being able to buy your kid clothes for school, or don’t have any health insurance. Support those that support the working class, it would be great if Clatsop County could have that happen…
On Mar 28, 1:09 PM, tired of the emotional rhetoric wrote:
What Farms? Where is your DOCUMENTED PROOF that someone is going to lose a farm? AND are you or are you NOT the same kind of person who won’t let those same farm people convert their farms into some other profit oriented business because YOU have decided there must be an OPEN SPACE to look at? Talk about unpatriotic, telling me what to do with my land.
Talk about unpatriotic, telling Leahy who he can or cannot sell his land to!!!! Telling any land owner what they can or cannot do with their own PROPERTY, yet they MUST pay FULL taxes on it or submit their land to the scrutiny of a planning division that has BIAS towards their own coworkers who have their same SOCIALISM political agenda.
Don’t care about the SALMON? How many local fisherman do you have on your side and are supporting that contention? FISHERMEN, not homegrown pseudo-scientists who have data to support whatever induced hazy “factoids” they are bent on making up for the moment.
Natural Gas is environmentally safe and sound. It is a lot less dangerous then the power lines you have overhead or running through cables in the ground. Where’s all your hostility when the cell phone towers and DSL cable is being laid (through that precious farm land with its right of way)? Oh, yeah, its for YOUR convenience! That doesn’t count!!!
On Mar 28, 2:35 PM, no smell? (wrong) wrote:
tired of the emotional rhetoric Says:
“THINK about it!!! NATURAL GAS IS AN ODORLESS, COLORLESS GAS!!!!”
Yes - but the gas that they use to warm the LNG is not.
They must warm the LNG to convert it back to NG. the fuel that they burn in the heaters to convert the gas is not nearly as clean-burning as the natural gas that goes in the pipe.
You will be breathing - and smelling - those toxic emissions, if you let LNG in to your life.
On Mar 28, 4:43 PM, i dont believe you wrote:
Not that I am buying into the smell but even if it is so, how will you be able to tell which smell is from Bradwood, which is from Wauna and which is from the stinking fishy river?
Once again, everyone is expected to take an economic HIT so a few tree huggers nose’s aren’t affected? The “not in my backyard” syndrome? NO! Not this time. You guys yanked one industry away from us. You had a chance back then to SHOW us what you could do for us.
We entered into one of the darkest periods we ever encountered as a county, according to our “illustrious” DA. The period right before he came and the five years at the beginning of his reign of terror. Drugs ran rampant, stores closed, employment plunged. Supposedly it was his reign that brought this under control. When he leaves in three years and we don’t have an industry where will we be? Staring at a bunch of closed store fronts that say, “AVA used to be here, artists went back to California, thanks for staying pristine while we visited!”
NO THANK-YOU! GIVE ME LNG!
On Mar 28, 11:43 PM, Calm Down! wrote:
Can we get back on topic here? Does everything have to devolve into LNG or the DA? The topic was a beautifully-written article about what makes our area special, primarily the lack of cookie-cutter chains (at least in Astoria). I don’t think there’s any question that Warrenton has cast its die in the direction it is going--as the new Home Depot goes up and the new auto centers. But this can be a good thing for both Astoria and Warrenton in the sense that the architecture and the types of businesses that make Astoria so special are more likely to be preserved and less likely to become “cookie cutter” if there are other places for those businesses across the river.
If you look at many downtowns across the country, Chico, CA being a great example, they have numerous mom and pop operations, but where “chains” have gone in, they have to do so in the historical storefronts--none of this tearing down and massacre of the old style for some gaudy new signage. It can be done in a way that is much less offensive. There are many small towns that require strict architectural control for their centers. There isn’t any reason we can’t. But it has to start now. Because the Flavel block isn’t going to be there forever, and we need to be thinking right now what is going to go in its place...or if the existing structure will be renewed and the businesses will have to adapt their storefront designs to match the town’s character.
I agree, I would hate to see Astoria become just another string of Jack n the Boxes and Taco Bells. Otherwise, we’ll just be like everyone else.
On Mar 29, 12:57 AM, encourage real shops downtown wrote:
I like what “an idea for downtown” wrote. I think it could work for Astoria. It should be encouraged, especially with it looking as if Flavel’s are working on some sort of deal regarding their downtown property.
On Mar 29, 7:57 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
“IMHO, in Astoria I think it would be great to walk from the Post Office to the old Chris’ News and be able to “one stop shop” but from a variety of independently owned shops. I mean like how they do it in Europe and used to do it here. Trade shops I think they call it. You go to the bake shop to get your breads, go to the butchers to get your meats, fish market, then the vegetable market, the fruit stand, then to the children’s clothing shop, the linen shop, the undergarment shop, the womans shop, the mens shop. And so forth. All in all I would bet it would be no longer of a walk then in one of the malls in Portland. If they would connect all the awnings so the walking would be nice in the nastier weather people could take their evening walks and window shop, getting their exercise done while they make the next days shopping list.”
This is how things actually happen.
Somebody with one idea leads to another with an idea, leading to another.
Somebody actually trading negativity and vitriole for an attempt to find solutions.
Thank you, that’s very refreshing.
On Mar 29, 12:18 PM, THartill wrote:
I order for this to work you need people downtown. Not just folks parking and walking, but people living downtown. So the town needs to build up...but is it possible in the present political climate?
I wish this water front visioning thing also involved Commercial St. because I would like to see that area built up...with apts. up top and commercial below. Sure the new buildings would have to be made to “look old”, but it sure beats building things on pilings...and probably half the cost.
On Mar 29, 12:56 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
“In order for this to work you need people downtown. Not just folks parking and walking, but people living downtown. So the town needs to build up...but is it possible in the present political climate?
I wish this water front visioning thing also involved Commercial St. because I would like to see that area built up...with apts. up top and commercial below. Sure the new buildings would have to be made to “look old”, but it sure beats building things on pilings...and probably half the cost.”
Well, in order to get people downtown there has to be a “Draw"(A reason to go down there.)and whomever the poster on the downtown ideas is positively adding to the dialogue, for a change amd more of the same should be encouraged.
You are right that Downtown core retail district does need to be a part of that visioning process.
Edmonds Washington is dealing pretty much with the same issues we are and has an interesting plan underway. Google up...Edmonds downtown/waterfront update plan.
To add to the dialogue, I would like to see the developers of Seaside Outlet Mall, or similar, sit down with City of Astoria Planning and ADDHA to think tank a blending of a concept of that retail ethic with an existing historic downtown retail core to the mutual benefit of both.
On Mar 29, 3:55 PM, THartill wrote:
Still need to address parking....it’s pretty full down there now even with the old Safeway lot being used....it won’t be like that forever. Redoing some of the old buildings would make it very easy to have parking underground.
On Mar 29, 4:14 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Tongue Point municipal parking.
A working trolley.
A great bus shuttle system in S.E.T.
I don’t think it is an insurmountable issue.
On Mar 29, 5:18 PM, Dr. Evil wrote:
On Mar 29, 3:14 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Tongue Point municipal parking.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
So if I wanna run downtown and score some maple bars at the bakery, get some fishing tackle or socks at Links, or some printer paper at ABECO I’ll just haul ass out to Tognue Point, park, then ride a trolley downtown.
Man, what kind of drugs are you on that twists your brain around enough to actually come up with this crap?
On Mar 29, 5:40 PM, Name (required) wrote:
I would like to see the developers of Seaside Outlet Mall, or similar, sit down with City of Astoria Planning and ADDHA to think tank a blending of a concept of that retail ethic with an existing historic downtown retail core to the mutual benefit of both
and what about the benefit to longterm downtown established businesses that have been serving the market here for generations, like Link’s, Astoria Business, Gimre’s, etc.? You think they’re gonna say, “Gee, what a great idea McGee! Bring factory outlet chains downtown to run us, who have been here for years, right out of business, Yayyyy!!"…
On Mar 29, 7:36 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
“Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
So if I wanna run downtown and score some maple bars at the bakery, get some fishing tackle or socks at Links, or some printer paper at ABECO I’ll just haul ass out to Tognue Point, park, then ride a trolley downtown.
Man, what kind of drugs are you on that twists your brain around enough to actually come up with this crap?”
Think about it for a moment.
Do you live in town?
One thing we do have here is excellent or at least better that most for our size, great Public Transportation and if projections are correct you may be having to use it a bunch yourself, like it or not so we must explore all options.
Maybe you are comfortable putting gates at all entry points to Clatsop County.
You got a better solution?
Please......I’ll wait for you answer.
On Mar 29, 7:45 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
“On Mar 29, 4:40 PM, Name (required) wrote:
I would like to see the developers of Seaside Outlet Mall, or similar, sit down with City of Astoria Planning and ADDHA to think tank a blending of a concept of that retail ethic with an existing historic downtown retail core to the mutual benefit of both
and what about the benefit to longterm downtown established businesses that have been serving the market here for generations, like Link’s, Astoria Business, Gimre’s, etc.? You think they’re gonna say, “Gee, what a great idea McGee! Bring factory outlet chains downtown to run us, who have been here for years, right out of business, Yayyyy!!"…”
Now, you think about it for a moment Genius.
We need to explore as many options as we can and some thinking on the part of how all downtown businesses play into it is very important.
Nobody has even mentioned the propsect of booting existing businesses out.
It is important to the success of it that they, the existing businesses be key players in the entire process.
Think about how very carefully.
You have a better solution?
Please......I’ll wait fot your answer.
But I forget where I am and the audience, so the response is typically predictable.
On Mar 29, 8:28 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
For starters, lets look at the architecture of many of the buildings in that downtown core.
First off, most of them have a floor above the shopping area. Often this was originally incorporated to be used as offices for the business owner but it also was used for housing capacity. Many of which had available room to have 20+ soldiers in bunk-beds during the war. It probably isn’t entirely unrealistic for that space to be used as a residence for these owners or possibly rented out as loft-apartments. This would A) bring people into downtown literally.
Lets not forget there is alot of people living already on the hill but in the 1950s census, Astoria had a population of over 50,000. So how do we account for this. Often this is NAVY residence at people’s homes in the attic/lofts as well as the attic/lofts of commercial buildings downtown.
These are mix-use facilities.
A common practice in the 1920s and 1930s and even since then.
I have had thoughts of a complete awning or roof and commercial street between 8th or 9th and 15th being pedestrian. However, I disregarded it as infeasible and not particularly favorable on an architectural standpoint or compatible with tourism that is fundamentally based on the historic architecture as well as the culture that works in synergy with each other. If loose one, we fundamentally collapse the other.
Which would utterly fold Astoria right into bankruptcy.
I advise caution with continuous awnings as this may not be possible because of differing style of architecture and certain discontinous horizontal lines that do not flow even with each other.
There are some buildings that has differing store fronts in ways that would cause incompatibility in these regards. Caution should be made and careful thought.
I do not want to mean or say that having awnings isn’t a good idea. Just don’t want it to conflict with the architecture of the buildings and it takes away from the buildings. Much of them are showpieces and Astoria is essentially now an architectural museum and we are the curators.
Rick Balkins
Building Designer
On Mar 29, 9:19 PM, Name (required) wrote:
“On Mar 29, 6:45 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
You have a better solution? ”
A better solution to what? Did some ask me, or you for that matter, to redesign or change downtown Astoria into some “visionary’s play ground” or something? Jeez Louise, this goddamn town has been here over 150 years and all of a sudden you show up and got big plans how it really should be? Dude, it you like Astoria leave it the hell alone. The downtown people ie; the property owners dont need you telling them what they should do-let them take care of it. If it aint good enough for you then dont go down there.
On Mar 29, 10:24 PM, Calm Down! wrote:
For starters, the way it is now is often not the way it was even 100 years ago. For instance, the trolley that ran along the length of Irving and then down into town? How wonderful would that have been if they had kept it? I would use it to this day! But that was changed, so you can assume that many other things have changed over the decades. Maybe for the better for awhile, but not forever. My gosh, with this gas crunch, I mourn the demolition of a trolley that was probably torn out decades before I was even born.
As for living above businesses, this is also done in Chico (the only one I can speak of from experience) and many other places, I assume. You talk about your affordable housing. There it is, right there. Not only that, but the people living above the downtown lend a whole different layer to the experience. Their windows are open in the summer, curtains billow out and spider plants sit on the sills. They perch there and watch the parade in the summer, they run down to the market below to get this or that or the other thing. Downtown would be much more vital with cute units above the businesses, and the landlords, I’m sure, wouldn’t kick the extra revenue out of their bank accounts.
On Mar 30, 2:57 AM, encourage it wrote:
Many of the buildings already have awnings, especially the ones that are open all year around and don’t have alcoves for entrances.
Or, the city could build plexiglass covered walkways. If you think about it the main thing that keeps people from shopping downtown, going shop to shop, rather than one stop shopping at Freddys or Costco, is the weather. If people could shop in reasonable comfort they wouldn’t mind the slightly higher price, especially when you look at gas, variety and socializing.
“Going to market” means more than running to the store for milk. It means getting out, exercising the legs and seeing who else is out and about. A vital downtown, a vigorous county seat, a strong home base, means a lot to a community. You know where your kids are, they are “downtown”, your old folks are “downtown” at the park visiting, and you’re headed “downtown” to get a few fresh items for dinner and picking everyone up before heading home.
Instead of it being the college mecca many were hoping for it to become, it could be that and more as it becomes a community mecca. I don’t quite agree with mr. McGee about the transportation system, but I do see its potential and as gas prices raise it should be the mainstay of travel, especially throughout the day. Those downtown markets would also make a great way for a lot of our youth to get their first job market and customer relation skills and even a delivery service.
On Mar 30, 8:12 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
Here’s a city, Edmonds, Washington facing Dowtown City Core and Waterfront Redevelopment.
This may help shape your thinking.
Go There
On Mar 30, 1:08 PM, this is better than sims wrote:
Very interesting plan for Edmonds, we do need something like that devised with Astoria’s particular cultural and geographical influences taken into account.
We have the group headed by John Goodenburger who would like to be used for this type of venture (?) and his group wants (I believe) to get the vo-tech classes at the high school, college and TPJC involved.
Locally, are people aware that ODOT has offered their architects to help devise aesthetically pleasing traffic signals instead of the ugly things hanging on wire.
On Mar 30, 7:57 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
To: Name (required)
Hey, hey.
Patrick McGee is a building designer like myself. It is our professional obligation or duty you might say (like artists as we are artists of buildings) to question the “what is” so they we can aspire to develop or redevelop the built environment. Often to a higher standard or at least a better functioning environment reflective of our values and lifestyle and needs. Not that of our forefathers but OUR generation. Cities like any building must change to meet the changing needs throughout its life-cycle. Often, we remodel buildings because of new occupancies with new use.
This discussion line is about sharing ideas and thoughts. Patrick McGee simply provided his thoughts on what he sees for the future of the city. His ideas.
I word caution on certain ideas because when working with existing buildings, one has to be careful about changes that takes away from the character and charm and identity of the buildings.
To Patrick McGee, the Edmonds, WA development concept has some interesting ideas. Redevelopment is about revitalization and reworking the what is to better suit the needs and change is a constance in life in order to keep things lively and dynamic. I like to see more ideas on things in this area. Choosing the right “changes” is the important and pivotal for a successful environment in which its form will follow the functions and context of the community.
On Mar 30, 11:32 PM, Name (required) wrote:
On Mar 30, 6:57 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Patrick McGee is a building designer like myself. It is our professional obligation or duty you might say (like artists as we are artists of buildings
Oh really? Well, before I believe a word you or McGoo says I’d like to know what qualifications, ie., advanced education, degrees and certification / licenses to prove you are what you say you are as well as locations of buildings you and McGee have have actually designed that have actually been built.
On Mar 31, 6:13 AM, A Proud Native wrote:
Name (required) wrote:
Oh really? Well, before I believe a word you or McGoo says . . .
What a total horses ass you are. What are you, twelve?
On Mar 31, 7:35 AM, JP wrote:
The question is legitimate. Shouldn’t be to hard to answer.
On Mar 31, 10:49 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:
“The question is legitimate. Shouldn’t be to hard to answer.”
What question would that be anonym?
On Mar 31, 11:46 AM, JP wrote:
Name required wrote: I’d like to know what qualifications, ie., advanced education, degrees and certification / licenses to prove you are what you say you are as well as locations of buildings you and McGee have have actually designed that have actually been built.
Shouldn’t be too hard for a guy who claims to have supported himself the past 12 years or more by selling building plans, designs and so forth to point to quite a number of structures constructed from his plans and designs. All I’ve heard about is a few in the Mill Pond and that was years ago. Where are the others and what is your resume? Thats the question.
On Mar 31, 12:05 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
“On Mar 31, 11:46 AM, JP wrote:
Name required wrote: I’d like to know what qualifications, ie., advanced education, degrees and certification / licenses to prove you are what you say you are as well as locations of buildings you and McGee have have actually designed that have actually been built.
Shouldn’t be too hard for a guy who claims to have supported himself the past 12 years or more by selling building plans, designs and so forth to point to quite a number of structures constructed from his plans and designs. All I’ve heard about is a few in the Mill Pond and that was years ago. Where are the others and what is your resume? Thats the question.”
First of all, who are you, other than an “anonym” and why do you want to know?
If you are interested in doing some business, call me, I’m in the book and have always been.
Mr. Balkins had the courage to do so.
On Mar 31, 1:58 PM, JP wrote:
Perhaps Mr. Balkins has the courage to give us a quick rundown on his resume and buildings.
On Mar 31, 2:01 PM, sarkie66 wrote:
I flew into Clatsop County Airport and met with some of the places where my Texas money is invested, Thank God for me leaving Astoria,Oregon’I was shocked to see that The Flavels still have the local dumps and the City Gods are as chicken of the Flavels as they always will be.. I saw Tyrone and the rest of the City lads have done nothing to bring anything to Astoria’ I salute Warrenton And Home Depot for making Warrenton your nest’ Maybe it will give Randy some run for his money? The Mill Pond looked good and I saw the Macgee job and it looked really well.. In 3years maybe the City Boys will make a stop and get the bless from Cardinal John And do something with Astoria,Oregon. Warrenton is grand......
On Mar 31, 2:09 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:
“Perhaps Mr. Balkins has the courage to give us a quick rundown on his resume and buildings.”
And maybe you’ll have the courage to step out of the shadow of anonymity yourself and stop being so foolish as to assume anybody, with the slightest bit of integrity would stoop so low, themselves, to even consider giving you an answer.
And one of you clowns wants to infer Balkins is childish?
On Mar 31, 3:18 PM, Prank Floyd Wrong wrote:
No listed qualifications or examples have come from either of these two Frank Lloyd Wright wannabes. Oh, we’ve gotten the usual texted blather, bluster and bloviation from McGee, but since he’s been called and exposed many times over his “pre-drawn-contruction-plans-from-the-web-for-sale” racket, it’s a given that his usual vehement but disengenuous defense of himself, and this time Balkin, wont hold water this time, either.
Nothing new here, folks. Time to pick up your, ahem, Texas money get to the Astoria airport, board that private jet and hightail it back to Dallas Texas where you can piss and moan to T-Bone Pickens and J.R. Ewing about how those crafty old Flavels got you bent over a stump and are pouring the coals to ya - and not even having the decency to give you a reach around!!
On Mar 31, 3:36 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
JP:
Call Patrick McGee. He can give you an exhaustive list of his projects. I don’t have an exhaustive list of his projects but those at Mill Pond is a fair example of his ability to design.
There are some nice looking houses there. It isn’t really my place to speak for Patrick McGee. I’m a person willing to be kind and fair and helpful as possible. However, you should call for yourself. I tell you a little of what I do and is as forthright and candid as can be.
I can tell you the foundational principles of my design practice. The code of ethics that I hold to myself is here:
http://aia.org/SiteObjects/files/Hyperlinked_2007_CodeforWeb%20page.pdf
Replace the words architect with building designer and architecture with building design (adjust for plurality where required) and get the scope and principle idea.
I speak to you, not to get angry with you but provide you insight of this profession. Granted, it is admirable that you ask about credentials. You should choose your design professional, wisely.
I don’t go into great public details of my projects with clients simply because of Ethic Standard 3.4 of the AIA Code of Ethics. I am not a member of the AIA at this time but I hold myself to those principles. A building designer should in regards to Confidentiality is to safeguard the trust placed in them by their clients.
Rick Balkins
Building Designer
On Mar 31, 3:47 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Prank Floyd Wrong:
First off, I have not got into this “stock plans” business. I design each project for each client to each client’s specifications and site conditions.
I can’t say that I have done many projects here. One of the projects that I have prepared preliminary plans for is the Astor Street Opry Company’s new theater building renovation/conversion. It is a project that will take some years to work through completely. The main deal is convert the space from a laundry mat to a working theater for this upcoming season of Shanghaied in Astoria and more work would like come about in subsequential years but this is a culmination of alot of people donating their time and energy to make happen. Alot of which is donated labor.
On Mar 31, 5:13 PM, PFW wrote:
Rick Balkins wrote
First off, I have not got into this “stock plans” business. I design each project for each client to each client’s specifications and site conditions.
Good enough, thanks.
On Mar 31, 10:47 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:
Gee Mr PFW...have YOU helped out the ASOC lately? Or any other non-profit for that mattter? If not, you have no credibility to bash Rick, in my book.
On Mar 31, 11:14 PM, PFW wrote:
“ASOC”?? What is that?
On Apr 3, 3:58 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Astor Street Opry Company
On Apr 3, 9:27 AM, Ian wrote:
A) This discussion is disgusting. I’ve never, in public, seen such negativity and lack of respect. If you people were in public, you would’ve come to blows by now.
B) God forbid, Patrick is right when he asks for anyone else’s ideas on how we handle the change in this area. Just shooting other people’s ideas down is a waste of time and energy, and honestly, as soon as I see a personal attack I just skim through the rest of the comment. At least someone here is coming up with ideas, they may not be popular ideas or good ideas, but it’s a start. We need fresh ideas. Please try to help.
On Apr 3, 10:19 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Ian,
I don’t think that I was shooting down anyone’s idea. I only mentioned words of caution so that if done well and correctly, it will look good. If not done right, it will be a horrid mess. As a design professional, the idea is to do the work right. Perhaps there is more than one correct answer to a problem in this profession and there is. There are some established methods of process to achieving those goals.
Some of the folks here certainly are eager to shoot down ideas and flame people just to poke at them.
In any case, I think we can move forward with the discussion of ideas.
On Apr 3, 4:11 PM, Ian wrote:
Sorry Rick, that wasn’t directed at you but at some of the other folks posting comments here.
It seems the comments on the articles on this site just become a mud slinging match for a very polarized group of conservatives and liberals.
For any of y’all who need a quick lesson in how architecture works, check out the book How Buildings Learn.
On Apr 3, 4:56 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
No Problem.
You bring up a fairly good example. I haven’t read that particular book as there are many books on this subject.
Some more books, I’ll list when I compile a list of good read. Some would be more advance and directed towards design professionals.
On Apr 3, 5:58 PM, THartill wrote:
Ian
Thanks for posting.....
There are now 50 comments here with 24 different IP’s, any conversation with that many people will have some heated words. I have erased a few comments over the last couple of weeks that were too over the top and I took some heat for it.
But there is a fine line between letting people speak and censorship and I’m still trying to find it.
On Apr 3, 6:28 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
I haven’t found anything really heated.
I found that it is better not to get angry.
There was nothing really heated. There are other threads with more heated words but here, it hasn’t got heated.
The couple folks who was questioning my qualifications and Mr. McGee in matters regarding building designs were in their fair right to ask. However, they have to step out of alias and use their real names to get any detailed list of projects within the confines of respecting any confidential discussion and matters that was entrusted in me or Patrick McGee by our respective client.
I believe McGee and myself are willing to disclose information about our projects to people who are prospective clients who shows an interest in our services. In general, our past clients probably don’t want to be bothered by a bunch of folks who only just wants to verify their experience with their building designer or architect or engineer. In short, I will not spread client names or contact unless it was already publically released information OR permission is granted by the client(s) in which I have already done projects for.
There is something called, respect and respect entrusted in you and honoring it.
On Apr 3, 6:34 PM, THartill wrote:
And there is a good example. Rick doesn’t think anything was too bad here. Some readers may think so and some not. Also I think there is a good amount of quality info in this thread to make the conversation (well typing really) worthwhile.
On Apr 3, 8:06 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
Having done moderation on mail lists, forums, IRC channels in the past before. Some of which I was the owner of the mail list.
In many circumstances, the matters involves something called “signal to noise” ratio. What does that mean to those who doesn’t know the lingo, “signal to noise” ratio is a subjective and relative ratio between meaningful content (signal) and meaningless garbage, rants, ect. that pulls away from the content.
This thread does have a relatively ok signal to noise ratio. Being 50 messages, the format is often difficult to read a long list of comments. One thing that I can say to Tryan is that there is no defined specific fine line between allowing people to speak and censorship. This is up to you to decide and be reasonably consistant but adaptive to the audience. Each person has their own standard depening on the mood they are in and the person themselves. You just have to learn the art of differentiating emotion intent and reasonable logic behind the content of their message. You will never please all. It is EXACTLY like anything in the political world. You have to make a call and go with it.
For audience, just because a subject matter doesn’t interest you does not mean that you have any right to go in a flame someone in the thread or speak negative of the conversation. There will be times in threads that things are interesting and times when things are not so interesting to you. Common and basic ettiquettes (netiquettes) apply. I’m not the admin but speaking from experience, it helps to remember those things and make life easier for the admin (moderator). This is more a universal basis not just this blog/forum.
I speak on subjects that interest me that I have some interest and willing to research on to learn more about it.
You just either read and comment on a conversation or you don’t. That is your choice. That is the freedom here.
I’m eager to hear about ideas of how we can improve Astoria and our community. In most projects, it is not the architect or building designer that comes up with all the ideas. The ideas often start with you the client and the architect/building designer’s responsibility is to facilitate conversation with the client and all stakeholders of a project so that ideas come to fruition in ways that most if not all the stakeholders involved are pleased without sacrificing integrity or reducing to substandard designing.
On Apr 4, 12:55 AM, Concerned Citizen wrote:
On Apr 3, 7:06 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:.
....I’m eager to hear about ideas of how we can improve Astoria and our community...
For starters, how about trying to put the kibosh on the growing tourist industry and the influx of people moving here? I propose a city “art tax”. If you have an art gallery you have to pay the city. If you are an artist and your work is on display in a gallery within the city limits then you must pay a percentage of the listed price to the city regardless of whether the artwork sells or not. How about an espresso machine tax, too? If we can somehow disuade the arrival of artists, who are generally undesirables, and espresso drinkers our quality of life in Astoria is sure to improve because it wont be so crowded with whiners and Californians.
Also, getting rid of that dreadful abomination they call the Sunday Market would be a good thing, too.
those cruise ships are a definite pain in the patootie, too. Hopefully those things can be driven off so they never come back.
thank you for letting me have my two cents worth.
Have a nice day.
On Apr 4, 12:37 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:
I’m intriqued with the message from “Concerned Citizen”:
The art tax to detract people from Astoria. Wow, “undersirables” is a strong word to refer to these folks. Expresso drinkers… some are.
What ponders me the most is the blame on “Calfifornians”. I think this is not the issue. It is folks from larger cities moving into small towns taking their customs, and expectations from bigger cities with them. Some adapt and some strive to change the community to be like where they came from. Some strive not to make the town like where they came from but bring in ideas from their experiences outside the area.
Most of this Art culture is coming from Portland and Seattle folks and some of our children who moved out to the big city, got their Bachelors or Masters in Fine Art (or similar degree in Perfoming Arts/Musical Arts, or Theatrical Arts) and moved back to the rural area because of natural beasuty is symbol of perfection and being closer to perfection they can be inspired through perfection to make better art piece. Or a variety of sayings.
Some Californians like some Seattlites and Portlanders brings this we are better then you attitude. Well, I lived in the big cities and I am not here on this “I am better than you”. Every person has skills in different areas in my mind. I am in the design profession. Some may be in the profession of fishing and know fishing better than me.
You have your right to speak your two cents worth and is a fair enough. I just think that we can get a picture by evaluating the comments for what it is worth and see what the various expressions of the community is on different issues.