NorthCoastOregon.com

On Jun 8, 11:10 AM, Country Boy wrote:

We deserve a County Commissioner that is not in the pocket of Don West
and Marc Auerbach that will not pass on their mis-construed lies and unsubstantiated half truthes.

On Jun 8, 3:13 PM, LNG works for me wrote:

Pretty much your whole post is a half truth, McGee.

YOU mix up fact and fiction. Whether it is deliberate or your just a fool is anyone’s guess.

Ballast water withdrawal will be done through screened intakes to avoid entrapping fish and other mid-water column organisms. Narrative of Support Dec 12, 2006 http://www.bradwoodlanding.com/filing-papers/2006_Dec/2245888_1.pdf

Mitigation Plan March 2007
Screened water intake, pumps, and piping to supply water to unloading ships for cooling and ballast
Changed project design to provide screened water to ships at dock for cooling engines and filling ballast tanks, thus avoiding entrainment impacts to juvenile fish (including listed salmon)
Installing screened water intakes at the wharf to provide cooling and ballast water to the LNG carriers while docked to avoid entrainment and impingement of juvenile fish.
Minimizing the amount of water drawn from the Columbia River by filling ballast tasks with the same water used to cool the engines.
http://www.bradwoodlanding.com/filing-papers/2007_03/Revised%20Mitigation%20Plan.pdf

2008 Bradwood Landing’s avoidance and mitigation measures
Bradwood Landing has designed its terminal to avoid and minimize impacts to fish and wildlife to the greatest extent possible and to virtually eliminate operational impacts at the facility to fish and wildlife. Specific avoidance and minimization measures include:

* Restructuring the facility to a compact footprint (about 40 acres of the 411-acre property);
* Reducing the number of pilings needed by using larger diameters, thereby reducing in-water construction time, and completing work when the fewest fish are present;
* Adapting proven state-approved fish screens to avoid entrainment of juvenile fish (including listed salmon) into ship ballast tanks and engine cooling systems;
* Using horizontal directional drilling to route the pipeline under streams and wetlands to avoid and minimize impacts from pipeline construction; and
* Dredging for the ship turning basin will be in an area formerly used as a deepwater dock that is already deeper than 20 feet, deeper than the typical habitat for juvenile salmonids.
http://www.bradwoodlanding.com/news_article25.htm

Where’s your documentation that they say they aren’t going to use screens?

What about the end jobs?  Most people I know want the tax base as much or even more than the end jobs. We want the cheaper fuel, we want the additional resources. The fly by night tourist shops will add nada to the economy of the average family in clatsop county. An industry taking on a huge share of the tax burden is what we need.

Who’s paying for the security around the cruise ships? Same people will be paying for the security around the LNG.

Blatant lie that there’s nothing in writing that Bradwood won’t provide the Emergency Responders with the proper equipment to respond to an LNG related incident. The condition of obtaining a building permit is based on satisfying the Emergency Responders needs. You blatantly lie when you imply any building permits have been issued.

“People of this ilk” is one of the most prejudiced statements used to incite. Get one group mad at “the other”. People of your “ilk” designed trailers made of formaldehyde therefore all home designers shouldn’t be trusted. 

Bradwood doesn’t infer, they signed a Memorandum of Agreement to comply with all Clatsop County codes.

Your “ilk” lost a hell of a lot of people when your lies and half truths came out. You are the one that is going to be shocked at how much is going to change this summer.

The ONLY fishermen protesting Bradwood is a small contingent that use Clifton as their private hideyhole. As a fishing family we know full well fish don’t spawn near Bradwood. The dredging taking place there will rarely have to be done again. Cruise ships and freight tankers do a lot more “harm” to the river than the LNG tankers will, because they don’t use screens, rarely follow any rules and no ones really enforcing them because they want the tourist trade and the freight so badly they don’t really care what their doing to the river.

There is no reason to be turning this LNG project down except for petty selfish, not in my backyard, crap that elitist yuppies can afford. We are tired of you, and we are scared watching the price of gasoline soar.

WE NEED LNG.

HEAR THAT KULONGOSKI???  We thought democrat = for the working class. Since when did democrat= elitist, enviro-fanatic???

On Jun 8, 4:31 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

But, AA we don’t need LNG and I believe we can do better than this scheme and put a helluva more people to work than 20?, 30? 50? 60? after the 3-5 years of labor profiteering is over.

We just need the time to find the right industries that suit us and that can be done as opposed to sitting here and waiting for the likes of Aluminum Smelters, Ship Breaking and Energy Speculators to wedge the feet into our community’s door through our local leadership.

Yes we all have our own truths that we choose to follow but, after two posts above, your argument gets absolutely no traction at all in convincing me it is any more valid that the vagueries in NSNG’s rhetoric.

Details not hammerred out?

Plenty of time?

Agreements yet finalized?

Probably?

Need to know basis?

And NSNG is being allowed to submit any of there data to FERC?

As I said somewhere else it’s going to end the way it ends and we will move forward accordingly but this issue is far from being over or contested and still, at this point any info I present is as valid as anything NSNG is presenting.

Spent a whole hour with a KAST-Am interview with Joe Desmond spouting the same PR Hype NSNG and Calpine/OLNG have been spouting since day one,just maybe tom diffuse the hearing that same day which didn’t work.

On Jun 8, 8:08 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Patrick McGee,

We can either wait while we twiddle our thumbs hoping for the magical golden egg to drop out of the sky or we do something.

What types of businesses, companies, jobs, ect. that hires 100s to 1000s of employees? I can mention a few… tech companies (not just consumer tech like computer and software companies but also industrial tech and military tech) and box stores.

What do the tech companies all need? Energy. They need energy to run there auto-robotic assembly line machinery, lighting HVAC systems and other systems not to mention the numerous computers.

Typical facility like the Commodore facility in Norristown, PA as well as there facility in West Chester, PA would occupy an area about the size of the college campus and require the energy of around 5x times that of Clatsop Community College main campus. Mostly due to the assembly/production facility portion of the facility and the 24/7 operation nature. One of the buildings would typically be an office building. In Commodore’s case, was like 3 maybe upto 5 floors but very lateral. The West Chester, PA was the Corporate HQ and Assembly plant for North America. The Norristown,PA was the Semiconductor portion, MOS Technology. That was eventually closed down when C= went bankrupt and was temporarily opened until closed by EPA for some issues with chemical leaking from a chemical waste disposal/storage. The chemicals were typical and necassary for semiconductor development and manufacturing. In short, some ground contamination occured. EPA has significant regulations these days.

This wouldn’t be a concern, here except for a semiconductor fabrication/production plant or such where significant chemicals is used. Software development and production would not have these issues and would be much like the West Chester, PA facility. (Which by the way, is now QVC’s TV Studio). They would almost always be required to meet the applicable EPA and other regualtory codes from local, state and federal of current. Often the common “modifier” is “whichever is stricter”. They always need significant electricity - for the computers and equipement and they will most often use natural gas for the heating portion of the HVAC and electricity for the Ventilation and Air Conditioning system. Such a facility could hire several thousand people for a 24/7 operation.

Another requirement is an airport. One capable of handling private jets would be sufficient. Mainly to get from here to Portland or Seattle or even L.A. then take a larger airline to across the ocean. Common for executives. Sufficient growth capacity. Allowance for housing development in the orders of 100s at a time.

What city isn’t so important but they have often been close to big cities but not always. A branch facility can be located anywhere provided there is an airport nearby and sufficient infrastructure such as energy.

On Jun 8, 9:56 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Balkins, you’re doing what we should all be doing, thinking rather than succumbing and that’s what it takes.

We don’t have to wait for it to come to us we go out and look for it through a Task Force and appropriate consultants that sepcialize in putting communities and businesses together to explore the potential and impact and benefit certain business/industry will have to a community.

Once again we don’t need LNG, we need a reliable supply of Natural Gas
and word is, currently, we don’t necessarily need an NSNG or an Oregon LNG to supply it with it’s accompanying 20-30-40-50-60 end jobs in a community of 36000 people that need good, solid jobs as well.

On Jun 9, 12:37 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Yes, thinking but certainly we need an infrastructure in place to attract these kinds of businesses.

Thinking and doing is key. LNG can help. Is it absolutely a need? That can be argued till we all turn purple with green and pink polka dots. I’m looking at the whole infrastructure. LNG alone puts maybe 60-75 permanent jobs per facility. During the construction boom, the construction workers are working and getting paid. After the boom, they can possibly afford and save up some cash for some college education. Temporary infusion for several hundred. The tax base would help to fund County-wide public works projects. Having an energy source and established infrastructure capable of handling these industries like tech industry which are known for hiring a good number of employees.

One of the project killers is not having infrastucture capable of handling their businesses. We don’t want that, of course.

I’m not against LNG but certainly we also need more than just LNG in long term but it can help. Money is the name of the game and it takes money. I don’t think it would detract businesses coming in to the community that would be capable of hiring in the hundreds and thousands. In fact, it would be an attraction. These businesses are not as concern about aesthetics and other stuff of the community as they are looking at and analyzing whether the project can be built and meet the functional needs. The aesthetic elements comes afterwards once they know the area has the infrastructure necassary.

$7M to $14 or $15M dollars a year infused into the county taxes would help provide for more work to be done in the community. In fusion of additional businesses and some tech company and housing development (growth of county population going up to 50,000+) would offset costs of aditional emergency response infrastructure.

There is alot to think and I don’t have all the answers but some thoughts. I can’t be anti-LNG at this point when considering that other options are still available and nothing in law says that there can’t be these options.

I understand your points, Patrick McGee as well as the points from the other camp. There is pros and cons to everything. If you assume that LNG is to be a singular answer to all our problems, then you would be a fool. They don’t claim that. They claim to help and be a part of the solution. There part is like preparing the site with utility and infrastucture necassary to build the house but there is more to be done to build the house which is the responsibility of the building owner. The building owner is us the people and community.

I hope this metaphoric similie, helps.

More metaphors can be made to convey.

On Jun 9, 5:59 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Point is aside from your impressive statistics there are no jobs at this point and you don’t know if it’s 10-20-30-40-50-60 or what they even entail do you?

Sounds impressive.

So does a thousand jobs.

You can get as tired of whatever as you want to but right now you are still talking about nothing and you best be praying this referendum doesn’t pass cause your NSNG crowd might just be starting from alomost dead zero again and you think Clatsop County Commision will be able to sleep walk through the process again?

I don’ think so but, who knows right?

On Jun 10, 10:57 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

I don’t have to “pray” about the referendum passing or not. It won’t matter, except for one little thing. Which you won’t know until it is too late. I can honestly say, I have no worries about that referendum.

And you confirm my points on the credibility and doubts about NSNG and their ilk exactly.

Such bitter and angry people these pro-LNGers and yes, sleep walking in the benevolent hands of a directing/controlling NSNG is correct and I assure it will not happen again as I hear from the opposing forces.

Thank you.

On Jun 10, 2:48 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

Patrick - your statement above reminds me of a schoolyard taunt.  Neener-neener-neener

The Commissioners did an outstanding job, and did nothing untoward or questionable in their decision (except maybe one, who I personally suspect was playing in Oregon LNG’s playground.)

The opposing factor in this fight are the people who are losing credibility, and more and more people every day are turning away from them.  You are just incapable of seeing both sides, and take only people with YOUR opinion seriously. 

Get over yourselves, you are NOT the majority.

On Jun 10, 4:18 PM, Emil Nyberg wrote:

Such bitter and angry people these pro-LNGers and yes, sleep walking in the benevolent hands of a directing/controlling NSNG is correct and I assure it will not happen again as I hear from the opposing forces.

Patrick
Who is bitter and angry?  It was not the pro LNGers that ahve attempted to disrupt all the hearings by screaming and hollaring,or holding up signs at inside the hearings. It was the FOGGERS that made fools of themselves when they wouldn’t be quite until the sheriff was called.

I have not ment any bitter or angry por-LNGes, only those that respect the anti LNG.  Rest assured that if Bradwood Landing is shot down we will have those hugh tanks in Warrenton.

On Jun 10, 6:36 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Patrick
Who is bitter and angry?  It was not the pro LNGers that ahve attempted to disrupt all the hearings by screaming and hollaring,or holding up signs at inside the hearings. It was the FOGGERS that made fools of themselves when they wouldn’t be quite until the sheriff was called.

Come on Emil!

Darned right the were hollering, and sign waving, it’s called protesting what they considered as being unjust.

The sheriff was called?

Right, one Deupty who wanted to know what he was there for?

Sleep walking?

Yes indeed.

Way too many unanswered questions, unmitigated issues to allow this project to move forward until satisfied but, we now see where things are and still the unanswered questions.

You should stick to being Another Astorian Emil.

On Jun 11, 2:06 AM, mighty mouse wrote:

Belonging to the listserves of numerous groups which suddenly became consumed with the LNG issue, I couldn’t disagree with PAH more. The posts have become more nasty, quite biting and bitter, especially last Sept on. I have not seen one ounce of “compassion” expressed in any of the emails, nor heard it expressed publicly or in private conversations. The Democratic Party’s candidate forum was derisive, petty and plain mean spirited, a humiliation to a party that supposedly represents a global outward orientation.  I have never been more frightened to sign my name to anything than I am now. I have never been harassed more than now, by the people who once called me a friend but if they find out I don’t see eye to eye with them on one issue would (and I have seen them do it) call me enemy.

Compassion? You speak a fallacy, PAH. I have heard the call going out, been to the meetings, it is all or nothing. There is no compassion. A very sick group of people who have no reason to be fighting except for politics. Pathetic to do this to a county, a state, a country. A very, very sick group of people who feed on other sick people, as we can all see here with the home designer.

I commend those who do use their names. I don’t call those who don’t “nobodies” we are all somebodies, often made to feel like nobodies. I commend this site, mostly. Hartill and his people are operating apparently without a safety net or monetary compensation (?), they take the harassment of those who don’t dare do what they are doing, they take on establishment and look into things no one else appears to have the courage to look into. It makes us “nobodies” feel like someone cares enough to allow us to be “somebodies”. The safety of this site is that here, we can be who we want to be or maybe who we wish we were.

We also all know our bosses are reading it, so maybe a bit of the truth will creep into a meeting or two and maybe we learn something about them, too.

On Jun 11, 7:32 AM, Emil Nyberg wrote:

I am a Democrat because we Democrat’s are supposed to stand up for livable wages wages (not the $14- 28,000) country wide, We are supposed to care about health care, how many kids go to bed hungery every night, the enviorment,I could go on and on but you get the point. It dose seem like every time something good trys to happen in Clatsop County there is this group that dose not want Higher Wages, Health Care ECT it is always we do not need this we need something else but they never say or work for what that somethig else is.  If we had enough natural gas cars that in itself would reduce greenhouse gasses my son in law in Texas filleg his Honda Natural gas up last night for the equliviant of $1.03 per gallon and there are only 2 filling stations for natural gasin the Fort Worth Area.

I do not want this group of people that ruined California so badly they would no longer live there to also ruin our area, we see it happening with the cost of housing and keeping wages low so the working class cannot afford to own a home here.

On Jun 11, 11:48 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

By the “Horses Mouth” you mean going directly to Bradwood/NSNG’s offices for the sales schpiel?

Would it surprise you that Peter Hackett and I are well acquainted and share some of the same interests and hopefully, mutual respect?

I know where the horses mouth is, yes indeed and that’s still why I take the position I do.

On Jun 11, 3:25 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Fear mongering from the anti-LNG forces?

Quote a specific instance for us.

That factual information is what these Speculatorrs call “Forward Reaching Statements” AA and somewhere dep in teir literature you will likely somwhere see a disclaimer claiming that all they are telling you is exactly that..."Forward Reaching Statements”

And Mr. Hackett?

What he does is his job.

That’s what he does to put food on his table and I sure as hell cannot fault him for that, he’s still a fine gentleman but, I just don’t agree with him.

On Jun 11, 8:38 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

No specific instances 30SOC just more generalization.

On Jun 11, 10:00 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Please.

Be my guest.

On Jun 11, 10:12 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

Might take a bit of time, but I’m on it...I can hardly wait to prove to you that your ILK has been spreading mis-information. (Damn I hate that word (ILK), and any anonymous post you’ve ever made using that word has made it obvious it’s you, since you’re the ONLY ONE THAT USES IT!!!!!)

I’ll post when I have it done...and it’ll be quite a list, to be sure

On Jun 12, 9:07 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Patrick McGee:

If certain people, the answer would be NO. That can be said on any site with these certain people. Keeping in mind that you are one of those certain people.

Do you want to do something about it so the conversations are meaningful? Start with yourself.

It starts with humility and taking into consideration something that you may not have the knowledge about that someone else might have. Stop razzing and arguing with other people and remain civil. Stop razzing people about their “user name”. Sure, some people want anonymity so certain people in public doesn’t immediately know who they are and spit in their face or even worse - attempt to kill them because they lost it. If they don’t know you personally, how can they trust you?

I’m not particularly worried about you.

On Jun 12, 1:41 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

We had a fairly good conversation on this on the phone.

All I can say in the whole is that everyone should try to respect each other. Treat others as you wish to be treated. It goes both ways.

So guys, if you don’t want Patrick being an ass, don’t be an ass to him. Same thing for you Patrick, if you don’t want to be treated as an ass, don’t be an ass. Lets all agree to this basic premise. I’m pretty certain, by all principle, Patrick agrees. It is a two way street. Respect each others views even if you disagree.

This would be a key step to developing credibility with NCO. Also, proper non-bias investigative reporting. Often, we may receive only a summary of the events but that is what a news article report is.

With that said, I hope that can be a basis for continued discussion about LNG, Bradwood and various other ideas, concepts, discussion and so on. We should refrain from making disrespectful remarks to people we disagree with. Don’t start the cycle and we don’t degrade to banter and chaos and ultimately useless conversation.