LNG referendum 4-131 Campaign - Fraud or Fact? | Opinion | Articles

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LNG referendum 4-131 Campaign - Fraud or Fact?

NorthCoastOregon August 28, 2008

Is the campaign being run based on fraudulant or factual information? Two bloggers write about the referendum campaign and LNG in general. Oregon Guy writes: You’d really have to be on the fringe to imagine some random pipeline construction taking place…because, and for the mere fact, of its being legal. Non Sequiturs & Exquisite Nonsense writes: If the Bradwood site goes into operation, is the choice whether to create a police-state environment or to provide easy opportunities for arsonists and nutcases and lazy terrorists?

Is the 4-131 campaign “dirty”? Has a “push-poll” ever influenced anyone in a local election? Would someone really be so dumb to do one right after Lee was accused of doing so and being so badly beaten? Are these types of accusations just a part of politics? Is it “responsible” journalism to report these kinds of accusations? Are the “glossies” this time around suspicious? Do they give out real facts or emotional ploys?
Email from a listserve against LNG:

Date: 6/27/08
We expect a vigorous and well-funded opposition from NorthernStar, the promoter of the proposed LNG terminal and pipeline at Bradwood. But with your generous support, we will prevail.
The campaign ahead will not be easy. To succeed, we need your financial help today. With money for lawn signs, mailings, radio and newspaper ads, and other expenses, we can run an effective and informative campaign to reach voters county-wide. With $50, we can buy radio time; with $100, we can buy 30 yard signs; with $1000, we can do a mailing. No gift is too small; every dollar will help us keep LNG pipelines out of parks.

SUPPORT THE REFERENDUM CAMPAIGN TODAY.
For every dollar you give through July 6, the campaign will receive a matching dollar, effectively doubling your contribution.

Donate online at http://www.ClatsopCommonSense.org.

Or mail your check payable to:
Clatsop County Citizens for Common Sense
PO Box 186
Warrenton 97146

To satisfy Oregon law, please include your name, address, phone, type of employment, and name and address of employer with your check; or download a form here .

FORWARD THIS EMAIL to everyone you can. Add a message explaining how important every donation is this campaign. More information is below and at http://www.ClatsopCommonSense.org.

Please donate today. Thank you!
Marc Auerbach, Laurie Caplan, Debbie Twombly, and Don West On behalf of Clatsop County Citizens for Common Sense

Email from Pro LNG listserve:
Date: 7/16/08
Hello valued supporters,

We wanted to let you know that Sr. VP of External Affairs for Bradwood Landing, Joe Desmond, will be on Tom Freel’s morning show at 8am on Wednesday July 16th. Tune in if you can – Joe’s interviews are always extremely informative!

8am Wednesday, 1370 AM

Thank you!

This email was sent to multiple recipients from our supporter database. If you would like to opt out from receiving occassional emails regarding upcoming events, hearings, etc., don’t hesitate to let us know. We will never provide your email to another party or company.

No vigorous or well-funded opposition actually materialized, or did it? Did any reporter ask who or what entity was matching each dollar that was given through July 6? Do radio interviewers ask the questions you want answered? Do you feel you have enough information to vote on 4-131? Where did you get your information? How are you going to vote?

Oregon Guy
Non Sequiturs & Exquisite Nonsense

Comments submitted past the 100 mark on first 4-131 discussion and previously hidden

All of us that live here on the river make our living on it, contribute to it and because of it, in one way or another. Please qualify how you make your living on the river and exactly what have you contributed to it? I live by it and have committed myself to doing the best I can to compliment it in my work.You? **************
Jenny, you said, “It wasn’t a “push poll”. I was asked, “Do you support or oppose LNG in your area” I said I supported it. The pollster than asked, “Would you change your mind?” I replied, “No”. If the pollster is asking that to people WHETHER OR NOT they said they supported it, IT ISN“T A PUSH POLL! I “ That’s how push polls work. What you don’t know is what they would have asked next if you had responded with a no as to whether or not you supported LNG. In a push poll your response determines what, if any, question you are asked next.
I’d like to hear from anyone who answered in the negative to supporting LNG as to what questions followed. *****************
If this referendum has no impact on Bradwood why did I just recieve a piece of propaganda from them about the referendum encouraging me to vote yes?
Anyone, Anyone, Anyone? *******************
I think all roads should be outlawed. We had over 40,000 deaths on roads last year. A hundred times more than lost in Iraq, 39988 more than lost world wide in pipeline explosions.
carmel

102 Comments

On Aug 28, 5:37 PM, advice wrote:

Swede, bring your comments over here, no one can read them as it only posts to the 100th commenter.

On Aug 28, 5:39 PM, swede's comments wrote:

Huhtala wrote:
I am clearly convinced that waiting around for wildly inappropriate development, such as LNG, will encourage the type of change that will drive jobs away as the quality of our life is diminished. I expect you’ll want an accounting of the lost tourism and fishing-related jobs; progressive businesses that will move elsewhere and the high-tech and alternative energy businesses that will scratch us off the their list. Peter If you know so much Who are these companies? If you can not answere can we assume that you are again mistating what you think?

*********
A no vote tells every one we do not need the GOOD PAYING JOBS.
We can all live on the average wage of under $30,000.00 per year or the $14,000.00 the workers of the tourist industries earn. I wish some of those opposed to LNG had to live on that amount.

On Aug 28, 6:35 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

So Swede, it’s 10-20-30-40-50-60 LNG jobs or a life of detistution at “Tourist Industry”, restaurant, menial work wages huh?

Well, one of your fellow Bradwood Testimonial buddies, Steve Phillips says those will be the spin-off jobs from Bradwood Landing.

And the referendum supporters are doing nothing but spreading misinformation?

Did I read somewhere that land in that referendum OPR zone has Nyberg attached to it.

Is that true Swede?

On Aug 28, 6:38 PM, Ann samuelson Worte This wrote:

On Aug 28, 4:39 PM, Ann Samuelson wrote:

Great factual reporting, one of the best articles I’ve read on NCO. As I read this I’m listening to a campaign ad for the no on gas lines in parks campaign. As a Commissioner who voted for the “variance” on private land regarding the Bradwood Landing project, I’m concerned about the lack of factual information folks are receiving to base their vote on regarding this referendum. This article is refreshing, as it is filled with TRUTH and no scare tactics.

On Aug 28, 7:46 PM, McGee Said wrote:

On Aug 28, 5:03 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

A “Variance” you call it Commissioner?

An amendment to the Clatsop County Comprehensive Plan and The Land and Water Use amd Development Ordinance is called a “variamce”?

Explain this for us Commissioner Samuelson since you wish to dispell all the disparity of factual information.

I would certainly like to be accurately informed prior to marking my ballot.

For your convenience, the wording in ammendment 08-05 is below.

LWDUO - Section 3.586-5 - Provisions of LWDUO are amended to list, “Cable, Sewerline, Waterline or other Pipeline” as a Conditional Use in the OPR Zone as described in Section - 6.

LWDUO - Section 3.586-6 - LWDUO 3.586(10) is amended to state; “10. Cable, Sewerline, Waterline, or other Pipeline” and the current LWDUO 3.586(10) is made LWDUO 3.586(11)

On Aug 28, 11:12 PM, Peter Huhtala wrote:

Swede, you know that I can’t betray confidences by disclosing someone else’s business plan. But tell me: How many people do you know that live here because of the scenic beauty, the recreational opportunities delivered by the Columbia River, the relative serenity of our communities, the security of our neighborhoods? Have you ever heard anyone call this God’s Country? That’s not because of LNG or aluminum.

We need better paying jobs. To get them is to demonstrate that this is an exceptionally desirable place to live, and to show that we intend to keep it that way by sending NSNG packing. Tolerating the speculators of the end of the age of fossil fuel is not the way to attract businesses that promote the healthy solutions that that we need for our grandchildren to enjoy this planet.

A NO vote will help move us toward a future with real jobs that serve our long-term sustainability.

On Aug 29, 12:04 AM, not buying it wrote:

Peter Huhtala wrote:

Swede, you know that I can’t betray confidences by disclosing someone else’s business plan....

especially when “someone else’s business plan” doesn’t exist except in the smoke and mirrors world of the wannabe “elitists”, aka anti-LNGers, who use any cheap lie or tawdry tactic in attempt to further their cause.

On Aug 29, 2:16 AM, Peter Huhtala wrote:

I returned to live in the town of my birth because I consider this to be a very good place to raise kids. I also value existing sustainable jobs, as do others:

“One of the issues that kept coming up over and over again was the fact that a (LNG) facility this big with all the security regulations that are going to be necessary, is going to make it harder for people who depend on the river to make their livelihoods.” --Adam Bless, senior facility analyst, Oregon Dept. of Energy, in the Daily Astorian, August 2, 2005

“After reviewing the U.S. Coast Guard Waterway Suitability Report (issued 2/28/07), I believe there is enough compelling evidence to oppose the proposed LNG project . The overall negative impacts on the entire river system are too great for me to support. The costs, economically, to the environment, to those living in the community, and to the river itself are just too much to justify moving forward on this one project.”—Brian Baird, U.S. Representative, WA

On Aug 29, 7:46 AM, King Herrod wrote:

Peter Huhtala wrote:

I returned to live in the town of my birth because I consider this to be a very good place to raise kids.

That’s nice. How many kids do you have?

On Aug 29, 10:08 AM, Peter Huhtala wrote:

Four kids and one grand-daughter (Eight months old!). I moved back to Astoria with two teenaged boys who attended and graduated from Astoria High School. All the kids are grown now and… moved away. I don’t believe that their choice of residence is related to jobs in our area, but it would be nice to lure them back someday. If they do move back this way I want to be able to look them in the eye and say that I’ve done all that I can to be a good steward for the environment where we live. Thanks for asking.

On Aug 30, 9:10 PM, Richpix wrote:

I’m repeating a post that I tried to get in past the 100 mark on the other discussion. It’s difficult to read above. Thanks for starting a new discussion on the topic.

My previous post:

Jenny, you said, “It wasn’t a “push poll”. I was asked, “Do you support or oppose LNG in your area” I said I supported it. The pollster than asked, “Would you change your mind?” I replied, “No”. If the pollster is asking that to people WHETHER OR NOT they said they supported it, IT ISN“T A PUSH POLL! I “ That’s how push polls work. What you don’t know is what they would have asked next if you had responded with a no as to whether or not you supported LNG. In a push poll your response determines what, if any, question you are asked next.
I’d like to hear from anyone who answered in the negative to supporting LNG as to what questions followed.

On Aug 31, 8:37 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Rick asked;“I’d like to hear from anyone who answered in the negative to supporting LNG as to what questions followed.”

“Thank you for your time.”

That was the caller’s response at my answer of “No”.

* A public-opinion polling technique that is used to test possible campaign themes by asking very specific questions about an issue or candidate.
http://www.truecivics.com/2008/02/political-glossary.html

* A push poll is a political campaign technique in which an individual or organization attempts to influence or alter the view of respondents under ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push poll

* A campaign technique in which a fake poll is used to alter the views of respondents. Push polls are generally viewed as form of negative campaigning. The term is also sometimes used incorrectly to refer to actual polls which test political messages, some of which may be negative
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/push poll

On Sep 2, 11:57 PM, Country Boy wrote:

McGee wroteDid I read somewhere that land in that referendum OPR zone has Nyberg attached to it.

Is that true Swede?

Patrick, that is not true, I have nothing to gain one way or the other, are you trying to start another ANTI distortation?

On Sep 3, 7:28 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Sep 2, 11:57 PM, Country Boy wrote:

McGee wroteDid I read somewhere that land in that referendum OPR zone has Nyberg attached to it.

Is that true Swede?

Patrick, that is not true, I have nothing to gain one way or the other, are you trying to start another ANTI distortation?

I asked a question.
It has been answered.
I have voted.
Now it’s up to the citizens of Clatsop County to decide the fate of referendum 4-131 and we will see whose lies prevail.

On Sep 3, 7:40 AM, guest wrote:

I understand that the referendum people have hired door to door solicitors at 9.00 per hour to promote their cause...and perpetuate their lies.

On Sep 3, 7:53 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Sep 3, 7:40 AM, guest wrote:

I understand that the referendum people have hired door to door solicitors at 9.00 per hour to promote their cause...and perpetuate their lies.

I keep asking this question but, don’t seem to be able to get an answer:What lies, guest, are Referendum 4-131 specifically perpetuating....specifically?

On Sep 3, 8:54 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Sep 3, 7:40 AM, guest wrote:

I understand that the referendum people have hired door to door solicitors at 9.00 per hour to promote their cause.

Where and/or from whom do you understand this from?

All my correspondence has been to ask for volunteers to do “Walk and Talks” on Referendum 4-131.

On Sep 3, 9:43 AM, Nick wrote:

It has been answered, over and over again. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN LNG PIPELINE.
THERE HAS NEVER, EVER, BEEN AN LNG PIPELINE FIRE or EXPLOSION IN THE UNITED STATES (despite the blatant lie told by a writer to the Daily Astorian)
MEASURE 4-131 ALLOWS THE TRANSMISSION OF ENERGY, OF WATER AND OF SEWAGE CONDITIONALLY IT IS A BLATANT LIETO STATE THAT A PIPELINE WITH GAS FROM AN LNG HOLDING TANK WOULD EVERBE ALLOWED TO PASS THROUGH A CHILD’S PLAYGROUND AS PICTURES AND COMMERCIALS HAVE DEPICTED OR FOR A PIPELINE TO REPLACE A STREAM AS THE PICTURES HAVE DEPICTED.

There, you blind sob, there are fraction of the lies being perpetuated by your ilk on this community.

On Sep 3, 10:25 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

And who it spreading misinformation?

Like I said, I guess we’ll see whose lies prevail on September 17th.

This conversation is over as far as I’m concerned.

On Sep 3, 12:22 PM, Best Guest wrote:

You know, Patrick, with all your comments one would think that you would have your own web site by now so you could spew your never ending opinions 24/7.

On Sep 3, 12:39 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Essentially, he does. He has his own Blog site. He can do that 24/7 like you said.

On Sep 3, 2:00 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Sep 3, 12:22 PM, Best Guest wrote:

You know, Patrick, with all your comments one would think that you would have your own web site by now so you could spew your never ending opinions 24/7.

Yes I do and I could but why waste a site like this?

On Sep 3, 3:27 PM, Ann Samuelson wrote:

Understand that I am not here to debate my vote to grant the variance, I stand by it, and am proud of the work we as a board and county staff have put into this project for over a year now. This referendum gives voters the opportunity to “undo” our majority vote. It is not true that a proposal for pipeline in other OPR zones would be granted easily, as it is a permitted use. It would have to be conditionally permitted and subject to detailed criteria on the local code. This referendum will do tremendous harm to the future of economic development and infrastructure of all types in Clatsop County.

On Sep 3, 4:12 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

It is not true that a proposal for pipeline in other OPR zones would be granted easily, as it is a permitted use.

Is this an accurate statement Commissioner Samuelson?

On Sep 3, 4:35 PM, Ann Samuelson wrote:

Mr. McGee, if the County were in a position to have jurisdiction it would be subject to the local code and process. This referendum simply asks the voters whether they want to ratify or reject the vote made by the majority of the County Commission. Further there is no such thing as an LNG pipeline.

On Sep 3, 5:12 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

I’m not really interested in debating you Commissioner Samuelson as that referendum 4-131 decision is now in the hands of the citizens of Clatsop County, I simply asked if that above statement("It is not true that a proposal for pipeline in other OPR zones would be granted easily, as it is a permitted use.") is accurate.

Is it?

On Sep 3, 7:02 PM, Nick wrote:

On Sep 3, 7:53 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:I keep asking this question but, don’t seem to be able to get an answer:What lies, guest, are Referendum 4-131 specifically perpetuating....specifically?
Answered On Sep 3, 9:43 AM, Nick wrote: It has been answered, over and over again. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN LNG PIPELINE.(despite the blatant lie told by a writer to the Daily Astorian)A BLATANT LIE TO STATE THAT A PIPELINE WITH GAS FROM AN LNG HOLDING TANK WOULD EVER BE ALLOWED TO PASS THROUGH A CHILD’S PLAYGROUND AS PICTURES AND COMMERCIALS HAVE DEPICTED OR FOR A PIPELINE TO REPLACE A STREAM AS THE PICTURES HAVE DEPICTED.
On Sep 3, 10:25 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:who is spreading misinformation? Like I said, I guess we’ll see whose lies prevail on September 17th.This conversation is over as far as I’m concerned.

On Sep 3, 7:19 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Patrick McGee, READ HER MESSAGE AGAIN. Damn!

For a building designer, you should know something about conditional use. Every conditional use project is evaluated on a case by case basis if it complies with conditions. If the condition listing isn’t sufficient then propose better language for the conditions OR propose the exact zoning classification that this project is to be zoned.

BTW: Do you realize that there is NOT a single zoning classification that outlines pipelines, sewerlines, ect. as either permitted use or conditional use in any of the county lands except for maybe a “public-right-of-way. How else, other than modifying the ordinance is there to allow pipeline either as permitted use or conditional use. If it isn’t list as either then it is to be treated as NOT PERMITTED. That is how zoning laws have to be treated since the 1980s & 1990s lawsuits.

Wait a second, you just don’t want LNG here. Vote your way and be done with it.

On Sep 3, 7:30 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

This question has been the one that I’ve been pushing over and over all along, citing the BLATANT LIE that the opposition has been spreading from day one - saying that “this approval automatically opens up ALL PARKS to these dreaded LNG pipelines” An outright lie, as ANYTHING going through OPR zoned land would need to go through a process and get a permit. And McGee, making Ms. Samuelson repeat herself doesn’t make it more true, it’s a fact.

It’s really sad - I stopped by my neighborhood store today, chatting with the checkout clerk like we always do. Today, though, I said, if you haven’t sent your ballot in yet, I’d encourage you to vote Yes. She said she already had voted No, because she didn’t want to see pipelines in parks.

*sigh* Too bad I didn’t catch her two days ago, so could have explained it to her. After I told her what the NO vote would do if it prevails, all she could say was “Oh my, I had no idea!”

On Sep 3, 8:05 PM, Nick wrote:

Lay it out in black and white and WHO is spreading the misinformation? You are McGee, you along with the Citizens for Common Sense, Columbia Riverkeepers and everyone who passes on one of their lying pamphlets. I have never been more ashamed of my community for believing these lies (like a pack of sheep without even questioning what IS an LNG pipeline, what makes it so different, and why have I NEVER heard of an LNG explosion in the Columbia Gorge?) then I am at this time. I have never been more ashamed of the paper that is supposed to bring us the news. I am mostly ashamed of the people I once called friends who have become the epitome of everything they claim to oppose and fight against.

On Sep 3, 8:51 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

Nick, I’m with you that I have never been more ashamed of my community for buying into this CRAP without questioning it.

Especially considering the people fighting this are by and large, NOT lifelong residents, who would really like to see something substantial happen here - tourism is NOT the answer.

I’m a native Astorian, who has seen the canneries come and go...the logging come and go. And damn it, this area CANNOT live on tourism alone, regardless of what Don West says.

On Sep 3, 8:52 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Once again. we will see whose lies prevail on september 17th will we not and it will be the citizens of Clatsop County who will decide it.

You going to be able to live with the outcome?

But, according to Bradwood/Northern Star Natural Gas after spending thousands and thousands of dollars on an ad blitz that is now flowing over Lars Larsen’s show of all places, there’s really nothing to worry about is there.

On Sep 3, 9:10 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

I have a bad feeling that this is going to fail cuz of the LIES, & that’s so sad. I, personally, will be able to live with the outcome, but many others won’t. Not if they own land bordered by OPR and ever want to build.

No, it doesn’t affect Bradwood one bit, as they’ve said. As far as spending thousands on an ad blitz, THEY have not been doing newspaper ads, like CCCS, all they did was a 2 question poll, NOT a push poll, and a mailer.

Their radio ads have been going on for months now, nothing new.

That’s what is SO WRONG about this. The PC has regularly granted variances over this type of land for as long as the zoning has been in place-if they felt it was appropriate for the LAND IN QUESTION.

The BOCC granted a permit for Bradwood because they felt the use was appropriate.

In my view, this County is screwed if this referendum fails...no development, no growth.

On Sep 3, 9:12 PM, Ann Samuelson wrote:

The truth is of great interest to me. Know that I will continue to work hard for jobs in Clatsop County that pay a living wage, for sustainability, and progress that makes sense,with companies that rise up to our expectations, and I had many as did some of my fellow Commissioners on the Bradwood Landing project. This is a community that I grew up in, my parents did as well, and I raised my children here. My constituents deserve to prosper, and most of our young people should be able to see a future here. If you don’t agree with my views on this, I’m OK with that, but step up with alternatives rather than judge what you might not fully understand. We are the people we have been waiting for to get our economy moving forward, and that means all of you.

On Sep 3, 9:28 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

Patrick - “Once again. we will see whose lies prevail on september 17th” - oh that is so sad, since it’s the LIES that will get them there.

When they say that this approval opens up ALL OF THE PARKS, when that isn’t true - isn’t that a lie?

They talk about LNG pipelines, when there is no such thing, trying to strike fear - isn’t that a lie?

I don’t know how they sleep at night, I really don’t. They’ll win this tiny victory for themselves, not for the rest of Clatsop County, and they’ll call it a success…

I can only hope enough people have learned the truth and spread it to everyone they know. I would like nothing more than to have this referendum pass with flying colors and put them in their place.

I happen to trust my Commissioners’ work, thank you very much. I might not like them all, but know they worked like hell on this one!

On Sep 3, 9:31 PM, Lies wrote:

McGee, the citizens of Clatsop County are making decisions based on lies and the Daily A is part of the cancer here....just as the grocery store clerk voted in the above post, how can anyone feel decent being involved in such a dirty campaign that may lead to yet more poverty for those of us that live here, be sure to leave big tips McGee when you go out, they need it cuz most of em’ don’t have health insurance, oh don’t worry our hospitals and doctors can magically come up with the money, oh yeah we can’t get most Dr’s. to stay for long either...tourism, the town of worn out waitresses!!!
VOTE YES....before somebody turns out the lights!!!

On Sep 3, 9:37 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

Ann, thank you for chiming in, even though I know you don’t need to defend yourself. You and the Commission took on a HUGE job with this particular application, something which has NEVER been taken on in this area, and are to be patted on the back for the time you put in.

Thank you for your service.

On Sep 3, 9:45 PM, Ann Samuelson wrote:

AA, thanks for your respectful comment, I don’t have an ego in this fight for a local growing economy, just want to get it moving forward. As I said earlier, we are the people we’ve been waiting for to do this.

On Sep 3, 10:29 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

At this point, I voted to support the BOCC’s decision. However, I hope to see prompt improvements in some of the language that should help satisfy some folks concerns about high pressure pipelines in any park. Since the possibility is techniquely there IF the outlined conditions are met. However, that can be addressed with some specific language that deals with high-pressure pipelines.

Ann, I appreciate your defense on your stance with the issue. I believe the Comission should be able to make amendments as necassary.

Here is the deal, the anti-LNG folks knows that the land can not be zoned to any other zone without those zones being amended. If the BOCC decides to amend those zones, they would continue running referendums everytime there is an amendment to ordinance (which would be required) and hoping people will continually vote “No” and hopefully to stop LNG projects. Until the use of “eminent domain” to form a “public right of way” corridor.

On Sep 3, 11:11 PM, Nick wrote:

Pathetic what Forrester did. When do we get a real paper? Nice as this is, most people don’t know it is here, and its hard to share in the break room.

What I really LOVED reading here, is McGee’s admitting that his side LIES, and not a single person on the PRO-4-131 kowtowed to his invite. We all know the pro side didn’t lie. McGee, nor any anti, has ever been able to point to a single lie by the pro people. The antis lies pile up daily. And they don’t explain anything. Why was a dentist paid $700? Wasn’t it convenient the way Columbia RiverKeepers “donated” time and legal expenses that totalled the same amount that was donated before July 6th?!?!!

On Sep 3, 11:51 PM, Brad Johnson wrote:

Mcgee gets his ass handed to him on NCO as usual

On Sep 4, 7:37 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Sep 3, 9:45 PM, Ann Samuelson wrote:

As I said earlier, we are the people we’ve been waiting for to do this.

I think Commissioner Samuelson, you are losing touch with reality here and that is quite frightening considering the position you are in as an elected official charged with representing the interests of the citizens of Clatsop County.

On Sep 4, 7:50 AM, Jeff WItt wrote:

, Patrick McGee wrote:

What’s your point?

On Sep 4, 8:10 AM, Buest Guest wrote:

Ann has never lost touch. She is a local and knows what locals want for this community. On the other hand, transplants to this area have never been in touch with what the locals here desire for their community. You aren’t from around here are you, Patrick? It shows.

On Sep 4, 8:24 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

But, I am from around here, this is my home and Samuelson should be aware that she is charged with representing the interests of all the people she serves in Clatsop County.

On Sep 4, 9:08 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Patrick, you are a “transplant” (which means someone who moved here not born in this community. More particularly, people who move here while they are an adult)

Well, I would say that some “transplants” are in touch but many are simply out of touch.

As I see it, tourism is okay but it doesn’t and had never been the complete answer for the issue that our community faces. So, Patrick, you are not helping the cause when you are making insulting statements to Samuelson and others.

On Sep 4, 9:09 AM, emily wrote:

Palin is the force behind Alaska’s new gas pipeline, or did I hear wrong?

On Sep 4, 9:55 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Nevertheless, I am a resident of Astoria, Clatsop County, Oregon and entitled to the same representation as all other citizens served by the officials we elect to serve in our interest.

Insulting Samuelson for possibly overstepping her position as an elected official?

Now this....“As I said earlier, we are the people we’ve been waiting for to do this.”

Did I read this out of context quite possibly?

On Sep 4, 10:18 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Absolutely, Patrick. Entitlement to same representation is certainly true. But it is not because you are not from here that Ann doesn’t feel inclined to answer your questions. It is however, something that you caused for yourself. Anyway, Ann, I suspect that there is an error in the message:

“It is not true that a proposal for pipeline in other OPR zones would be granted easily, as it is a permitted use.”

Can you check to see if it is accurate to your intent or if there is an error. I have see a confusing statement when considering the rest of your message which this came from that was written On Sep 3 at 3:27 PM.

On Sep 4, 11:22 AM, Ignorance is not bliss wrote:

I am a resident of Astoria, Clatsop County, Oregon and entitled to the same representation as all other citizens served by the officials we elect to serve in our interest.

“Insulting Samuelson for possibly overstepping her position as an elected official?”

Is the District Attorney or a Judge elected to “represent interests” or are they elected to follow the laws? Do you even know what the Board of County Commissioners job is?

Civics lessons are grossly neglected, adults in this county don’t even know what elected officials’ jobs are.

On Sep 4, 11:23 AM, Ignorance is not bliss wrote:

203.240 Organization, powers and duties of board. (1) A board of county commissioners shall:
(a) Have the powers and duties and be otherwise subject to the laws applicable to county courts sitting for the transaction of county business.
(b) Unless provided otherwise by county charter or ordinance, consist of three county commissioners. A majority of the board is required to transact county business.
(c) Except as otherwise provided in ORS 203.230 (5) or an order issued under ORS 203.230 (1), appoint a chairperson from among their number who shall serve until the first Monday in January next following appointment.
(2) When a county has established a board of county commissioners any reference in the statutes to the county court of that county shall be considered a reference to the board of county commissioners of the county.

On Sep 4, 11:41 AM, Fear mongers rule while Forrester drools wrote:

State law does not state that a board of county commissioners job is to “represent” you. The ONLY language in the charter that contains the word “represent” is in relation to geography of where a person must preside. NOTHING about representing the interests of specific groups of people. The Board of County Commissioners JOB is to represent the interests of the COUNTY, as a whole! Not the ideologies, the whims, of special interest groups. Just because one group of fanatics can whip the county up into a frenzy with its LIES, does not negate what the BOCC’s REAL job IS.
While FOG has invested heavily in this campaign, and is blowing its smoke up people’s asses, sooner or later its lies will come back to haunt it, and all of the people associated with it.

On Sep 4, 11:53 AM, Know your civics wrote:

YOU, as Patrick McGee ARE getting the exact “representation” as every other person in Clatsop County gets from the DA or the Judge, or any other Commissioner. Their job is to take care of the COUNTY, not babysit Patrick McGee, Janice Coughlin,
Citizens for Selfish Desires</i> or <a href="https://secure.sos.state.or.us/eim/sooDetail.do?sooRsn=27001">Citizens for Confusion.

On Sep 4, 11:53 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Yet, the citizens of Clatsop County have the power of “Recall”.

On Sep 4, 12:00 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

“I am a resident of Astoria, Clatsop County, Oregon and entitled to the same representation as all other citizens served by the officials we elect to serve in our interest.”

Not to mention Patrick, just because our Commissioners don’t have the same view as YOU on a given subject, doesn’t mean they aren’t serving in the interest of the community. In my opinion, they’re doing a VERY good job.

On Sep 4, 12:11 PM, Hypocrisy of Common Sense and CFOG wrote:

Citizens for Common Sense and Citizens for Open Government both have Janice Coughlin as their treasurer. CFSC has complained that Bradwood ILLEGALLY didn’t report a campaign expenditure in a timely manner. The complaint was that Bradwood SHOULD have KNOWN that they needed to report the expenditure on the date that the service was rendered, not on the date they were billed for it. On June 23 Coughlin paid Annie Raymond $105 for “Phone calls to un-affiliated voters prior to recall vote”. The recall happened March 20th. I’d say a JUNE reporting of MARCH work was a little past the seven day reporting period! Double standards. The VAGUE reporting of Columbia RiverKeepers alleged $3000 of in-Kind service. Was that reported within seven days of when they performed the service?

On Sep 4, 12:27 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Sep 4, 12:00 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

“I am a resident of Astoria, Clatsop County, Oregon and entitled to the same representation as all other citizens served by the officials we elect to serve in our interest.”

And it’s wondeful we can have varying viewpoints on the issues that impact our lives but in the end, no matter the outcome, we move forward as a community and on to the next issue.

On Sep 4, 12:30 PM, some small thing we can do wrote:

Of when they were contracted to perform the service? Are they reading this now and frantically making up the paperwork?

Are they PROUD of being exactly the people they say they are fighting against?

go to driedsalmonmatters.blogspot.com print out the newsletter, deliver it door to door.

On Sep 4, 12:36 PM, LNG works for me! wrote:

Internet Connection

YES 4-131! Finally!

Pathetic that coughlin keeps giving from one campaing checkbook to the other. How can Columbia RiverKeepers accuse Bradwood when they did the same thing? Even as a 501c3 they do NOT have to just turn their books over. It just means you have access to the papers they have to file. They can still keep “funny” books, loose accounting methods, until they are audited YOU don’t have access to those books and they don’t have to prove ANYTHING to you.

On Sep 4, 2:16 PM, Nick wrote:

And it’s wondeful we can have varying viewpoints on the issues that impact our lives but in the end, no matter the outcome, we move forward as a community and on to the next issue.
There is no moving “forward” from this. It is three steps back and, hopefully, a mulligan.

On Sep 4, 2:54 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Sep 4, 2:16 PM, Nick wrote:

And it’s wondeful we can have varying viewpoints on the issues that impact our lives but in the end, no matter the outcome, we move forward as a community and on to the next issue.
There is no moving “forward” from this. It is three steps back and, hopefully, a mulligan.

So you have no trust in the citizens of Clatsop County to make the “right” decision?

I trust that they will in spite of you and me.

On Sep 4, 3:06 PM, T. Boone Pickens On U.S. Natural Gas wrote:

Domestic
Natural gas is our country’s second largest energy resource and a vital component of our energy supply. 98% of the natural gas used in the United States is from North America. But 70% of our oil is purchased from foreign nations.
Natural gas is one of the cleanest, safest and most useful forms of energy — residentially, commercially and industrially. The natural gas industry has existed in the United States for over 100 years and continues to grow.
Domestic natural gas reserves are twice that of petroleum. And new discoveries of natural gas and ongoing development of renewable biogas are continually adding to existing reserves.
While it is a cheap, effective and versatile fuel, less than 1% of natural gas is currently used for transportation

Notice,not a thing about any kind of import of LNG or even the need for it.

On Sep 4, 4:10 PM, Nick wrote:

No, I don’t trust that if people are lied to by a group that drives fear into them that they will be visited by the holy ghost in the middle of the night with a list of truths.
Pickens:
Lower 48 wellhead prices for natural gas are projected to decline from
current levels to an average of $5.32 per thousand cubic feet (2006 dollars) in 2016, then rise to $6.63 per thousand cubic feet in 2030. Henry Hub spot market prices are projected to decline to $5.82 per million Btu ($5.99 per thousand cubic feet) in 2016 and then rise
to $7.22 per million Btu ($7.43 per thousand cubic feet) in 2030.

On Sep 4, 4:33 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

So, Nick, are you saying that the majority of the citizens of Clatsop County are so gullable that they will all fall for a load of hooey from one or both sides of the referendum argument and vote a certain way against their will?

Pickens;

NG is full of projections and speculation but, will it become fact?

Do we wait for an answer or do we move forward.

Mr. Pickens doesn’t even bring up any need for LNG or the associated pipelines to transmit their foreign purchased product in the form of Natural Gas.

You saying he’s wrong as well?

On Sep 4, 4:40 PM, Nick wrote:

Total U.S. natural gas production grows modestly in the reference case, from 18.5 trillion cubic feet in 2006 to 19.4 trillion cubic feet in 2030, as depletion of the onshore lower 48 conventional resource base is offset by increased production from unconventional
sources and from Alaska. Offshore production increases to 4.5 trillion cubic feet in 2017, then declines to 3.5 trillion cubic feet in 2030. Production in shallow waters declines slowly through 2030. Production in deeper waters rises to 3.0 trillion cubic feet in 2019 and then declines through 2030. Discoveries of new conventional natural gas reservoirs are expected to be smaller and deeper, and thus more expensive and riskier to develop and produce.
Who to believe, the Department of Energy Natural Gas projections to 2030 or an energy speculator’s spin on his windmill plan?

On Sep 4, 5:16 PM, Nick wrote:

You want to wait for an answer on LNG, Audubon demands waiting on answers before going ahead with Windmills, the 1980 landslide ballot measure to ban construction of further nuclear power plants shows no sign of ever allowing new nuclear plants being built, and we simply do not have enough solar to ever make that energy source more than a mere fraction of our overall energy plan. Who the hell wants to “move ahead”? Its do it “my way” or “no way”!

Are you, Pat, saying that the majority of Clatsop County citizens are so gullible that they are sheep for Bradwood’s advertising to mold, unless Common Sense counters it with outrageous lies?

On Sep 4, 5:50 PM, nightcrawler wrote:

LNG works for me, thanks for the Internet Connection link!
http://driedsalmonmatters.blogspot.com/ something to read at lunch.

On Sep 4, 5:53 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Once again Nick, do we wait to do something until we are comfortable or do we agressively use that 24 years to find the answerts we need for independence from fossil fuels?

I have full faith in the citizens of Clatsop County to do what they deem as right on referendum 4-131 and my issues with Bradwood, Pipelines, LNG and the like are mine only and nobody else’s, organized groups included.

I personally think, if given the time, we can find a better answer to this LNG Speculation that would put hundreds if not thousands of people to work at permanent, family wage jobs and generate a sound tax revenue as well.

On Sep 4, 6:55 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Certainly, we should be able to find solutions (plural) that will address the job market (with or without the LNG facility) but maybe the LNG company can help sponsor foundation grants that helps people start businesses for example and scholarship programs for education in multiple ways. Helping people get educated and perhaps helps to bring other companies here which can all be part of the solution. It takes small steps and I see the LNG as a small step forward because it provides energy, helps adds more money to the county via taxes and that is good for several reasons. More work and programs/services can be maintained and give job opportunity/stability.

In short, it is only part of the economic strategy not the complete solution and no one company or project will ever be a complete part of the solution.

On Sep 4, 7:02 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

I think that we can build solutions but it takes time and it is always an ongoing process. It might take 25 years for all that we seriously hope to happen (for todays dreams and visions) but that is ‘process’.

If the LNG facility becomes obsolete at some point, then something else will be built there or it is converted to another use. Lets put it simple, SO WHAT. Things are built and demolished. It serves its purpose. Look at the redevelopment at the Port and various other locations. Some buildings change use like the old Roy’s Maytag building becoming a theater. Other cases, buildings are demolished. The site is converted to another use. That is part of life.

On Sep 4, 7:27 PM, the uppertown love machine wrote:

T. Boone Pickens On U.S. Natural Gas wrote:

Domestic Natural gas is our country’s second largest energy resource and a vital component of our energy supply. 98% of the natural gas used in the United States is from North America....

...Notice,not a thing about any kind of import of LNG or even the need for it.

I been telling people for awhile that these pipelines and LNG plants aint being built for import-ultimately it’s about exporting the untapped NatGas deposits in Eastern Washington Eastern Oregon and Idaho.

Frankly, I’m surprised hardly anyone remembers what happened in the early 1980s in the oil/gas rights leasing business in Oregon and Washington.

On Sep 4, 7:49 PM, Josh Hazen wrote:

Patrick McGee wrote:

You don’t know jackshit. There’s been way too many people moving here and screwing up this area. Nobody wants your pipedream “thouands of jobs” to bring more of the kind’a crap you transplants bring here. Especially you pipsqueaks clowntards who think because you recently moved here that somehow that entitles you to dictate to the rest of the Pacific Northwest what it needs or uses the Columbia River for. Now despite all your handwringing, fearmongering and blubbering, an LNG terminal and pipeline is enviornmentally low impact as well as a windfall moneymaker for the district that it’s sited in.

On Sep 4, 7:52 PM, The Uppertown Love Machine wrote:

LNG terminals are coming to the Columbia River valley and to think a few Californians, Okies or other “artists” with too much money and not enough to do who have rolled in here are going to stop it is ludicrous

On Sep 4, 8:11 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

I’m interested in seeing people have jobs. Period. Not just minimum wage jobs but stuff that actually will allow our youth in this community to actually buy a home (or build one) and raise a family in reasonable conditions (meaning something better then just living in a $300/month apartment above a nudy bar/tavern or other run-down buildings with leaks like a sive and leaky pipes and scary electrical “fire-trap” wiring and so on. The income that would allow them to address those issues within 100 years of buying the home and without being put into $100,000s of debts and losing the house and being kicked out on the street within 5 years.

What these jobs are, I don’t know for sure but I hope to share ideas not tell you how to live on the riverside. I hope to see our kids willing to live here. Sure some will move but lets hope we can address this attrition factor of like 90% of our high-school graduates moving out and never moving back to this community.

On Sep 4, 8:20 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

I had moved here from California in 1995 while I was 14 years old. I didn’t move here with any intent of “telling the folks here how to live”. However, I can’t help but see the many issues in this community.

The issues here means much to me because this community is home to me. I don’t look to bring “Los Angeles” here. I don’t want it but I also know what our young see here. They see these advertisements on television and the movies and television shows that glamourize the big city. Then they want it. The saying, “How do you keep the boy on the farm once they seen Paris?” comes to mind. What is sad is that many of the youth doesn’t want to be fishermen or working in the cannery or logging. They want to be the big city big time attorney with all the media publicity. Sad thing, it isn’t that “glamourous”. The shock value can be daunting but it is a different culture.

On Sep 4, 8:27 PM, Name (required) wrote:

What these jobs are, I don’t know for sure

Give us back what was our’s all along. Tell all the treehugging fishkissers in D.C., Portland, Salem and the traitorous scum in Clatsop County just where to shove off.

We want our logging, lumber mills and timber products exporting BACK!

We want our fishing and fish processing plants BACK!!

On Sep 4, 9:04 PM, Best Guest wrote:

For you fans of irony, take a look at the post card at the top of this article. Notice the liquid propane tank on the trailer? We let those in parks close to other people and children playing. Oh the horror!

On Sep 4, 9:18 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

What these jobs are, I don’t know for sure

Give us back what was our’s all along. Tell all the treehugging fishkissers in D.C., Portland, Salem and the traitorous scum in Clatsop County just where to shove off.

We want our logging, lumber mills and timber products exporting BACK!

We want our fishing and fish processing plants BACK!!

Truce for a second.

So, was it lost for a lack of it, no market or bureaucracy?

On Sep 4, 9:33 PM, Name (required) wrote:

McGee, I’m not going to be the one responsible for teaching you about life in the county. Why dont you turn off the computer, get off your ass and maybe go out and talk to some 3 dimensional people who’s families have lived here for generations instead of being Mr. Internet Wannabe Knowitall About Everything.

On Sep 4, 10:19 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

Exactly! (to the last poster)

This county used to EXIST on fishing and logging, neither of which is doing very well these days.

I can’t tell you how I felt when Bumble Bee closed up shop, it was like the end of an era.

These days, I see out-of-work commercial fishermen trying to find any way they can to make a living. There are probably half the loggers there used to be even a decade ago, and the loggers there are have trouble catching a good contract. What’s even sadder, is I see many of the out of work fishermen and loggers spending their spare time down at one of our numerous local bars...cause they have nothing else to do.

(to be continued)

On Sep 4, 10:21 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

And yes, there are still a few canneries around (between here and the WA side) - but now they’re almost more like sweat-shops; the workers make diddly and work their butts off. The biggest problem there is, that the FISHING just isn’t as good as it used to be.

Tthis is why people are giving you crap for not having grown up here. We’ve seen what this county (and the city) have gone through, throughout our lives; and resent others trying to come in and tell us what is good for us.

To be continued

On Sep 4, 10:21 PM, AnotherAstorian wrote:

I have coffee every morning with some of my “cronies” as many would call us. We are the “old timers”. All of us support this new industry coming in, since we KNOW it will help replace what we’ve lost over the years. WE (the “good old boys"), are not the ones preventing industry from coming into the area...it is the newbies that are doing that - the “artists” that decided Astoria was just too pristine and pure to ruin. Oh my, obviously they haven’t been here very long, as the entire waterfront used to stink from canneries.
They think that Astoria can be saved by tourism...that’s a bunch of crap. Nobody in their right mind is going to come to the coast between October and May...and no local business can exist on 4-5 months of sales for the entire year. Our weather SUCKS in the winter, and everyone knows it.

So...McGee, that’s how it is here. I know you’ve been here for a few years anyway, which is why I have a hard time understanding why you don’t know this already

On Sep 4, 10:42 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Certainly, I wish I could do something about the lumber and fishing industry. The problem is much political but partly a truth in the factor of dwindling trees and salmon. The biggest thing hurting fishing and logging is the “quota system” which is based on previous years harvest and ALWAYS the next year is permitted quota is 95% of the previous years harvest. Which of course is undercutting the logging and fishing industry for years and was engineered by the environmentalists to essentially kill the logging and fishing industry. If you manage to hit quota, next year will be 5% less.

That sucks. Maybe its 99%. Whatever. The point is it is always less then the previous year. To prolong business, people need to meet quota each year to prolong the life of business. Failure to meet it means one or more years sooner to being out of business.
(to be continued)

On Sep 4, 10:50 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

My percentage numbers maybe off but the context of the point should be reasonably true. We do probably need other industries and commerce markets (not just tourism but there is nothing wrong with it and I support it as we need entertainment as well). We need job markets to employ our young fellows and tourism has its ups and down both in short-term as well as long-term. Thinking the 250 year celebration of Astoria and Lewis & Clark would be in 2055-2065 time-frame. How are this industry going to remain as strong during the 2015-2055 period. A 40-year period. That is the lull in this tourism industry.

If it were me, I’d be looking to something more stable and perpetual to place our economy on. Diversity would give us more stability without depending on logging or fishing booms to have the basic stuff going.

On Sep 4, 10:53 PM, Name (required) wrote:

The biggest problem there is, that the FISHING just isn’t as good as it used to be.

there’s nothing wrong with the fishing-it’s the goverment boys who have written it off as unneccessary or “wastefull"- first it was the gillnetters and trollers who took it in the shorts-then they went to work on the draggers.

On Sep 4, 11:03 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Logging and fishing certainly should be part of that equation but we have to face the reality and current environmental regulation situation looming over and careful extraction of resources.

I hope to see our traditional industry continue and foster but in this day and age, we need other commerce solutions (beyond tourism) to keep the economics good and strong. I think: professional services, industrial jobs, and various commercial ventures/enterprises including tech jobs and of course, recreational/entertainment be good to look at.

Sounds a little like Portland other cities but that is what is keeping those cities alive and strong with diversity. We just do it in a manner acceptable and respectful of our community.

On Sep 4, 11:05 PM, Name (required) wrote:

Rick Balkins wrote:

... The problem is much political but partly a truth in the factor of dwindling trees and salmon.

Jive. Trees grow back-and since no one really has fished for salmon the past 25 years the runs are in great shape. They manage off the weakest stocks and bulloney they can dream up. They didnt fish out the River in the hundred years before the govt. shut us off-and there was LOTS of pressure. The commericial harvest in the Columbia has been for all intents and purposes non-existent for 20 years but look at the numbers of fish coming back and going over the damn. Dwindling numbers! BAH!

On Sep 4, 11:09 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

There are some things, all cities, towns and communities should have. Astoria wasn’t that different then any other town or city for example. It had its main industries but had many other things. We need that solid connection with the world like Astoria once had but in the 21st century.

This is my opinion for starter of ideas based on things as they are. I’m still open minded to see other ideas and how things can work together. Not everyone wants to be fishermen or loggers so we can’t miss that.

On Sep 4, 11:17 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

I do realize that trees are growing back and fish numbers are returning. I meant in context, the history of what brought about these political pressures. Certainly 20+ years makes some difference.

I like to see the trees get a little thicker. Our trees are still twigs compared to the trees that we had in the old photos. Personally, I love to be able to use “heavy-timber” construction without having to go with built-up beams or glulams.

Anyway, I do agree. I like to see not just number of salmon but more monsters.

Anyway, we be hitting the 100th post mark, tommorrow so we need another thread chain soon.

On Sep 5, 7:35 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

So, what do you think it will take to restore our logging and fishing industries as a sustainable livelyhood?

Do you think we should be searching for Marine related indusrty to relocate here and what types?

On Sep 5, 10:08 AM, Patrick McGee wrote:

My observation is that under the Clatsop County Home Rule Charter the Commissioners are legislators, not executives.

The Sheriff and DA are executive officers and while elected are supposed to enforce laws, not make them.

The Commissioners, sworn to uphold the County Charter, honor the Constitution of The State of Oregon and The United States, must be responsive to the people who elected them. The only thing they “execute” is the hiring of the county manager.

Maybe Commissioner Samuelson can confirm this for us.

On Sep 5, 11:26 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Certainly responsive. It doesn’t say to “follow” one group of people from another. Get it?

Respond to their community, yes. Subject themselves to and argue with one person til the end of time. No. Dedicate their whole time in life to the role of the Commissioners. No. Not unless they are paid to be in the office FULL-TIME aka 8 hrs/day 5 days a week. However, their off-time is their personal life and they also have a right to privacy and having their personal opinion, life. They only have they “legally” have to respond to you is when they are doing official business as the Commissioners like in the Board Meetings. That is when they are “on-duty” as Commissioners. When they are not “on-duty” then they don’t have to respond to you as at that time, they are “private citizens” like you and me. Certainly an officer off duty doesn’t have to do “police” business unless called to serve as reinforcement but that is meaning, they are called back “on-duty”.

On Sep 5, 11:32 AM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Even though you are a building designer by “occupation” 24/7. When you close up the office for the day, you are just a citizen and entitled the right of privacy as any other citizen. You close up office, you are off-duty. You don’t have to answer the phone or do any design for the rest of the day. You can enjoy taking your wife to dinner, watch a movie. Whatever. Your client can not expect you to answer their questions about their project at that time. You can ask him to call you in the morning or volunteeringly answer his/her question but you are off-duty at that time. Same with the Commissioners. Be happy that she even responded to you on NCO. Otherwise, go to the public meetings and ask your question at the public comment time. That is when the BOCC has to answer your questions or respond to it in accordance to law.

On Sep 5, 12:53 PM, mayhem in the fog wrote:

Right on Rick!

These people, all of them in our local government, are either doing it for a pittance or for free. As commissioners they serve on numerous committees, committing over 100 hours per month to the community.

At MINIMUM wage, not chairman of the board wage, these folks are contributing close to $1,000 a month in their time, alone, not counting gas/mileage, phone bills and computer time to research and keep in contact with various projects that they are supposedly responsible to the public for.

The harassment they are subjected to is ridiculous. Forrester is a complete ass to initiate and goad it. Bringing to the attention of the public some inaccuracies is one thing but his constant harassment of Lee, even after leading the lynch mob to remove him from office, borders on obsessive fanaticism.

On Sep 5, 1:30 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

And the rest of us volunteer to watch them for nothing as well.

Remember this, nobody held a gun to these elected servants of the people. They knew exactly what they were getting themselves into and they knew exactly the risks and repercussions they could be subjected to.

On Sep 5, 1:45 PM, new tip for the day? wrote:

Bullshite. You have demonstrated most have no idea what the board does, and Rohn has demonstrated that most have no idea how many hours it takes. But, per norm, you are either misinforming or deliberately lying. But, hell, with Cindy as your example you know you can get away with it.
“You have a privilege guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States to misrepresent the truth almost as much as you want, to as many people as you want, and I will continue to do everything in my power to ensure that right is respected.” ~ Cindy Price

On Sep 5, 1:46 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Patrick, do you want to be taken to court for harassment? Not for freedom of speech but harasment?

Stop it. It is against the law for a citizen to harass another citizen and the Comissioners ARE citizens as well. Treat them with respect as you should treat any other citizen in accordance with law.

There is risk but okay. Harassment on the other hand is going too far. Disagreement is ok but harassment is not.

4 messages left or so about before the 100 post mark.

On Sep 5, 1:50 PM, Yeah Rick! wrote:

Rick great response, I doubt very much that Mr. Lee expected the harassment and degradation he and his family continue to endure in this community, I doubt the other Commissioners knew they were signing up for this low to no pay nonsense either. Elected officials in Clatsop County have worked hard as I have watched them to improve things for the average person, not like the “we want every damn thing to be a park group” that included Westbrook...I hope the silent majority gets to see how stupid this referendum is, and how they’ve been lied to, I expect it to go their way because the lies have worked for them in the past. I’m one of those democrats in CC that’s scared to say I’m one, the vocal ones in CC are just plain nuts!!

On Sep 5, 2:35 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

Harassment?

Sue me?

Who would it be I’m harassing?

On Sep 5, 2:39 PM, Patrick McGee wrote:

On Sep 5, 1:46 PM, Rick Balkins wrote:

Patrick, do you want to be taken to court for harassment? Not for freedom of speech but harasment?

Stop it. It is against the law for a citizen to harass another citizen and the Comissioners ARE citizens as well. Treat them with respect as you should treat any other citizen in accordance with law.

So shall I consider this a threat Rick?

Tip of the Day

"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." ~ George Bernard Shaw "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." ~Thomas Jefferson (Thanks, Auntie)

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